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A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

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Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#71

Post by beau_g »

benj111 wrote: post #41
ajross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll change your mind the first time you turn on the heat from across the parking lot while sipping coffee in the ski lodge, or need to check the charge status while eating lunch, or point stuff out on the satellite imagery on the live map. I know it's easy to imagine that the product you think is "a car" is finished, but product categories evolve. People want their devices to do different things today than they di…

>the market has spoken. In the sense that a market is made up of buyers and sellers, and the sellers have decided to offer no other option yes. I think the issue is more of the design and ownership of these things. No one wants an update bricking their car. I doubt a lot of people here would object to a discrete subsystem where you could poll charge status, turn on heating etc.

You can buy many vehicles today dating all the way back to the turn of the last century. Here's some listings for steam cars if you insist on no electronics whatsoever https://www.steamcarnetwork.com/for-sale

Whatever your line is in the sand for tech integration, you have many great options from before that point.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#72

Post by sam_lowry_ »

Avshalom wrote: post #64
bilsbie wrote: post #12

I wish someone would make a truly dumb car. Sure you can have microcontrollers for emissions, safety, etc but beyond that give me a 1970s user interface and make the car as independent of technology as possible.

I know motorcycles are basically just an occasionally-useful game of russian roulette but every fucking automotive news cycle has me thinking about how they're basically the only way to buy just a motor and some wheels anymore.

You'd better check twice. Some had dial-out networking for years, like BMW.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#73

Post by KennyBlanken »

variadix wrote: post #22
otterley wrote: post #16

It’s a bit troubling that automakers (and, well, anyone who is building things that have mechanisms for software updates) aren’t making software updates failsafe. If you have multiple copies of the image on storage, and you take care not to touch the currently-running image, then a failed software update to the alternate image shouldn’t have any impact. Think of it like blue-green deployments on the cloud; and it’s w…

My router has dual firmware partitions, the fact a car doesn’t is inexcusable

It should be mandated, but corporations dominate legislation and regulations.

"You'll drive up costs for the hard-working American consumer"

"We'd have to cut salaries or fire factory workers"

"We wouldn't be able to compete against that car company from Nothereistan!"

etc.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#74

Post by mikewarot »

Back in the 1980s I was in the room with a customer who I had written an inspection system for, using a hand-held computer. After downloading the data from the handheld, it would upload a new inspection route.

While demoing the transfer, He asked "What happens if I disconnect this right now?".... I didn't know, and said so.

I week later it was bulletproof... you could unplug it any time you wanted, and never lose data.

That was the days of MS-DOS.

So, here we are, 30+ years later, and computers are nowhere near as constrained as they were back then.

I don't understand how Ford could even allow a screen like that to exist. It's a big red flag saying "Never buy a Ford again, they're unreliable"

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#75

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

stefan_ wrote: post #33
otterley wrote: post #16

It’s a bit troubling that automakers (and, well, anyone who is building things that have mechanisms for software updates) aren’t making software updates failsafe. If you have multiple copies of the image on storage, and you take care not to touch the currently-running image, then a failed software update to the alternate image shouldn’t have any impact. Think of it like blue-green deployments on the cloud; and it’s w…

I'm sure the infotainment system does, but that is not all that is being updated; you have many more processors in ECU, assistance systems and so on that are also sometimes getting fed new firmware over various wonky buses as part of an upgrade. In some instances there might even be multiple levels involved in the firmware distribution.

So? Everything that can update firmware should do the same thing.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#76

Post by jpollock »

exmicrosoldier wrote: post #43
anothernewdude wrote: post #6

What brand of car? So I know what to avoid?

It is a Ford. Either an f150 lightning or a mustang mach e.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/ford/mustang-mach-e/phot...

Looks like the Mach-E

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#77

Post by stefan_ »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #75
stefan_ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the infotainment system does, but that is not all that is being updated; you have many more processors in ECU, assistance systems and so on that are also sometimes getting fed new firmware over various wonky buses as part of an upgrade. In some instances there might even be multiple levels involved in the firmware distribution.

So? Everything that can update firmware should do the same thing.

And then what? A/B update isn't magic dust, if some sub component ends up with an incompatible firmware because it had to boot to the alternate partition, you might still have an incompatible overall system.

(Not like the subsubsupplier of that module even specced the extra flash memory for A/B update, hah)

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#78

Post by cs702 »

Very lame.

My immediate question upon seeing the headline was: Which EV brand are we talking about? Evidently it's not Tesla, because if it had been, the headline would have mentioned it, no doubt. It's a Ford, in case you're wondering. Shame on Ford!

Ford and all other automakers are learning the old-fashioned way that making truly great user-facing software is... harder, slower, and costlier than they expected.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#79

Post by stefan_ »

rpmisms wrote: post #56
iknowstuff wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is. Failed updates are non-destructive, they also have an RTOS gateway isolating entertainment software from the software needed to drive the vehicle. https://www.pentestpartners.com/security-blog/reverse-engine... And this is their decade old architecture. If you watch some cybertruck videos you’ll see it is much more elegant now.

Tesla is very very good at software engineering. They still need to find the balance in their software and process engineering, though.

You are talking about the company that wrote logs to the fully read-write filesystem of their infotainment system and killed the EMMC from raw flash cycles within as few as 2 years. Recalled 10 years later.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#80

Post by gumballindie »

iknowstuff wrote: post #35
rpmisms wrote: post #4

My Tesla had an update fail, and it didn't break anything, I just got a new update package the next day. I also replaced my own headlight and had to run a software update to initialize the new part. I called a service center and had a software update in less than an hour. Try that at Audi.

Tesla knows what it’s doing. Not these guys.

They know so well that there was a report yesterday showing how tesla’s a low quality vehicle. Behind the dacia.
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