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A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

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Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#31

Post by trentgreene »

markx2 wrote: post #23
bilsbie wrote: post #12

I wish someone would make a truly dumb car. Sure you can have microcontrollers for emissions, safety, etc but beyond that give me a 1970s user interface and make the car as independent of technology as possible.

My eldest daughter knows her way around cars, and she refuses to buy any car that has any sort of computer in it. She knows how to change this, repair that, fit whatever and is very happy doing that. But she also knows that as a female if she goes into any garage for a 'diagnostic' she will be overcharged. In fact even for something normal with a 'non-computer' car she will be overcharged. Cars without computers are…

As a fellow “analog” automotive enthusiast, I’m curious how she defines computer in this situation?

Given that ECUs / microprocessors have been standard on cars since the late 60s / early 70s.

For me it’s the network connections and updates that scare me. The software on my ‘99 Benz hasn’t changed in 24 years, and I don’t need it too.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#32

Post by hgomersall »

whstl wrote: post #28
ajross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll change your mind the first time you turn on the heat from across the parking lot while sipping coffee in the ski lodge, or need to check the charge status while eating lunch, or point stuff out on the satellite imagery on the live map. I know it's easy to imagine that the product you think is "a car" is finished, but product categories evolve. People want their devices to do different things today than they di…

All this is possible without integrating the software into the vehicle itself, making it brickable. Reliability and repairability going down is not "evolution" in any sense. And the market hasn't really said anything when those things have been pushed into consumers without much choice. Saying "the market has spoken" in this case is like saying the market has spoken when someone claims that slapping a fruit logo is e…

I feel it's not completely impossible to design a system that is properly partitioned, such that an update failure to the seat heating software doesn't brick the car. Updates to core systems should be rare in the extreme.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#33

Post by stefan_ »

otterley wrote: post #16

It’s a bit troubling that automakers (and, well, anyone who is building things that have mechanisms for software updates) aren’t making software updates failsafe. If you have multiple copies of the image on storage, and you take care not to touch the currently-running image, then a failed software update to the alternate image shouldn’t have any impact. Think of it like blue-green deployments on the cloud; and it’s w…

I'm sure the infotainment system does, but that is not all that is being updated; you have many more processors in ECU, assistance systems and so on that are also sometimes getting fed new firmware over various wonky buses as part of an upgrade. In some instances there might even be multiple levels involved in the firmware distribution.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#34

Post by cedws »

otterley wrote: post #16

It’s a bit troubling that automakers (and, well, anyone who is building things that have mechanisms for software updates) aren’t making software updates failsafe. If you have multiple copies of the image on storage, and you take care not to touch the currently-running image, then a failed software update to the alternate image shouldn’t have any impact. Think of it like blue-green deployments on the cloud; and it’s w…

This is more commonly known as A/B partitioning and as you say, is standard practice in embedded devices. It is indeed disturbing if automakers have not adopted this, nor a rollback mechanism.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#35

Post by iknowstuff »

rpmisms wrote: post #4

My Tesla had an update fail, and it didn't break anything, I just got a new update package the next day. I also replaced my own headlight and had to run a software update to initialize the new part. I called a service center and had a software update in less than an hour. Try that at Audi.

Tesla knows what it’s doing. Not these guys.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#36

Post by pharrington »

Does anyone have an original source for this? The picture is reposted from a different social media influencer's tweet https://twitter.com/githii/status/1738289618921951296, but with less compression artifacts and without that influencer's story.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#37

Post by JCharante »

thot_experiment wrote: post #11

I know there's no market for people like me, but I would never buy an internet connected car. It just seems so fucking insane to me that people are willing to accept relying on something that can be bricked remotely. Same goes for any sort of involuntary OTA updates to anything, and software as a service in general. The thing that matters to me is that my tools still work tomorrow when I need them to, and if they bre…

I'm fine with having both. A dumb ICE car for emergencies and an electric car with bells and whistles for daily use

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#38

Post by ajross »

whstl wrote: post #28
ajross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll change your mind the first time you turn on the heat from across the parking lot while sipping coffee in the ski lodge, or need to check the charge status while eating lunch, or point stuff out on the satellite imagery on the live map. I know it's easy to imagine that the product you think is "a car" is finished, but product categories evolve. People want their devices to do different things today than they di…

All this is possible without integrating the software into the vehicle itself, making it brickable. Reliability and repairability going down is not "evolution" in any sense. And the market hasn't really said anything when those things have been pushed into consumers without much choice. Saying "the market has spoken" in this case is like saying the market has spoken when someone claims that slapping a fruit logo is e…

> All this is possible without integrating the software into the vehicle itself, making it brickable.

Sure. And Ford messed up. But the request upthread wasn't for a vehicle with robust software update semantics, it was for a vehicle without connectivity. That's not going to sell well.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#40

Post by iknowstuff »

whstl wrote: post #28
ajross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll change your mind the first time you turn on the heat from across the parking lot while sipping coffee in the ski lodge, or need to check the charge status while eating lunch, or point stuff out on the satellite imagery on the live map. I know it's easy to imagine that the product you think is "a car" is finished, but product categories evolve. People want their devices to do different things today than they di…

All this is possible without integrating the software into the vehicle itself, making it brickable. Reliability and repairability going down is not "evolution" in any sense. And the market hasn't really said anything when those things have been pushed into consumers without much choice. Saying "the market has spoken" in this case is like saying the market has spoken when someone claims that slapping a fruit logo is e…

Tesla does it well with their real time gateway mechanism isolating entertainment software from crucial vehicle driving software.
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