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The end of retirement

thewalrus.ca

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Re: The end of retirement

#91

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

apwell23 wrote: post #80
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this because declaring our loved ones extinguishable crosses the fattest line there is. And doing that based on a stat damns our judgment. Somewhere about here it becomes apparent that the value of our judgment is tied to the value we place on others.

> I think this because declaring our loved ones extinguishable crosses the fattest line there is. Maybe its just a social taboo and not a real line. most old ppl caring for elderly fulltime want their parents to be dead though. I've seen this personally in family members who totally transformed into different human beings in a good way once they were freed of the burden of caretaking. I could sense their hearts jumpi…

> family members who totally transformed into different human beings in a good way once they were freed of the burden of caretaking.

The burden of caring for aged parents is heavier now. A primary reason is the absence of the extended families that we're evolved to live in. Modern pressures to scatter families means that a 12 person burden is being born by 1 or 2.

Similarly, raising children is more difficult than it was historically. Murdering our burdens may be an expedient solution but I feel there are less catastrophic ways out of this.

Re: The end of retirement

#92

Post by supertimor »

rorroe53 wrote: post #39
graeme wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have a look at a population pyramid, especially for countries without mass immigration. There isn’t much of a next generation. When people retire they become dependents. Each worker will need to support an increasing number of retirees.

Well, maybe AI will replace most office jobs, at which point most of those workers can become caregivers to the old.

Man that’s bleak.

Re: The end of retirement

#93

Post by nec4b »

simbolit wrote: post #48
Flux159 wrote: post #27

The numbers in the article are quite alarming for some countries - 49.9 out of 100 Canadians dependent (so one dependent for every 2 workers according to article) by 2075, or 77 out of 100 for Japan by 2075. This seems like such a critical issue that governments around the world will need to have significant societal changes - at the moment this doesn't seem like something that tech or biotech will be able to solve s…

the "significant societal changes" are immigration. as you can't change the birth rate overnight, and even if you could, it would take ~20years for the kids to begin earning, there needs to be a short-term solution. and that is immigration. good thing immigration is so popular in rich western societies at the moment.

The problem is when the country can- or does not have any influence of what kind of immigrants they get. Not every country can get the best. In the case of Denmark for example, the immigration has been shown a net negative[0]. And you have to admit it is weird to live in a society with a self destructing culture, where foreigners are used as breading rabbits.

[0] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00148-017-0636-1

Re: The end of retirement

#94

Post by ilammy »

simbolit wrote: post #48
Flux159 wrote: post #27

The numbers in the article are quite alarming for some countries - 49.9 out of 100 Canadians dependent (so one dependent for every 2 workers according to article) by 2075, or 77 out of 100 for Japan by 2075. This seems like such a critical issue that governments around the world will need to have significant societal changes - at the moment this doesn't seem like something that tech or biotech will be able to solve s…

the "significant societal changes" are immigration. as you can't change the birth rate overnight, and even if you could, it would take ~20years for the kids to begin earning, there needs to be a short-term solution. and that is immigration. good thing immigration is so popular in rich western societies at the moment.

> there needs to be a short-term solution

What is the long-term one then? Keep importing people and hope for the best?

Re: The end of retirement

#95

Post by aaomidi »

jodrellblank wrote: post #49
antisthenes wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being that reduced mortality at age 60 adds mostly unproductive years, while reduced mortality at age 0-1 adds mostly productive years.

Only if you consider a population of perfectly spherical massless wallets.

In Our entire system of economy practically does.

Like, it’s distasteful and I hate it and it’s one of the reasons I hate capitalism.

Your worth is your labor. Nothing more.

Re: The end of retirement

#96

Post by simbolit »

ilammy wrote: post #94
simbolit wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the "significant societal changes" are immigration. as you can't change the birth rate overnight, and even if you could, it would take ~20years for the kids to begin earning, there needs to be a short-term solution. and that is immigration. good thing immigration is so popular in rich western societies at the moment.

> there needs to be a short-term solution What is the long-term one then? Keep importing people and hope for the best?

a higher birth rate (aka make having children more attractive) is the only long term solution.

well, it normally would be, in our situation the climate likely will interfere with any long term plans.

Re: The end of retirement

#97

Post by simbolit »

nec4b wrote: post #93
simbolit wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the "significant societal changes" are immigration. as you can't change the birth rate overnight, and even if you could, it would take ~20years for the kids to begin earning, there needs to be a short-term solution. and that is immigration. good thing immigration is so popular in rich western societies at the moment.

The problem is when the country can- or does not have any influence of what kind of immigrants they get. Not every country can get the best. In the case of Denmark for example, the immigration has been shown a net negative[0]. And you have to admit it is weird to live in a society with a self destructing culture, where foreigners are used as breading rabbits. [0] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00148-017-0…

If they aren't qualified, then you have to train them. If they don't have your values, you have to integrate them. That is complicated, takes a lot of effort and costs a lot of money. Everyone who thinks anything about the problem is cheap or easy is delusional.

What is the alternative? Just let the population age?

Re: The end of retirement

#98

Post by regurfvjtdf »

PopAlongKid wrote: post #15
regurfvjtdf wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the fixed costs associated with employing an individual make that more challenging in some regulatory environments?

I'm trying to think of what those might be. Assuming you already have employees and a payroll system, I think maybe only worker's comp insurance would be considered a fixed cost. Maybe the cost of a notebook computer or other device, if required. Employees who are less than half time usually don't have to be offered retirement plan options or mandated sick leave/vacation (although here in California, it might apply a…

Also it’s just work to hire, manage, administer another enployee. Fiddling around in Justworks one extra time per month. Creating an email address. Etc.

Re: The end of retirement

#99

Post by nec4b »

simbolit wrote: post #97
nec4b wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is when the country can- or does not have any influence of what kind of immigrants they get. Not every country can get the best. In the case of Denmark for example, the immigration has been shown a net negative[0]. And you have to admit it is weird to live in a society with a self destructing culture, where foreigners are used as breading rabbits. [0] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00148-017-0…

If they aren't qualified, then you have to train them. If they don't have your values, you have to integrate them. That is complicated, takes a lot of effort and costs a lot of money. Everyone who thinks anything about the problem is cheap or easy is delusional. What is the alternative? Just let the population age?

What is the alternative? Just let the population age?

I would say change the culture to become self sustaining again. The best time to start was yesterday and the second best time is today.

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