Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Costs of running a macOS app studio business

notes.alinpanaitiu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 220 posts

Re: Costs of running a macOS app studio business

#91

Post by alin23 »

xrd wrote: post #47

I'm really curious how you found that MacOS consulting work. I have been battling MacOS build problems for years and so agree it is a rare and important skill. But I've yet to find the right place to sell that skill.

I was tasked with packaging an app so that it would run as a root LaunchDaemon. So a bit of launchd config work, a bit of pkg install scripts, weird workarounds in code for having the “daemon app” run in the login session of any user.

It needed a bit of sleuthing which I liked, it’s the other non-code stuff that I disliked.

Oh I realized now that you probably meant how I found, as in searched for the job, not how I liked it. Well I had a small button in the middle of the front page of “The low-tech guys” that lead to this page: https://lowtechguys.com/business

The copy is different now as I wanted to take another stab at helping my friend get into consulting. He just had his second child recently so we stopped that idea.

Re: Costs of running a macOS app studio business

#92

Post by codingcodingboy »

alin23 wrote: post #64
Almondsetat wrote: post #25

Isn't $5800/month a shit ton of money in Romania? Who even gets paid similar amounts there? He mentions a consulting job, but you don't consult as many hours a month as a salaried person

Yes, it’s a lot of money in Romania. I could live very comfortably if that would continue being the case. If I had my own place. My “not bad” remark is because I still can’t afford housing with all the money I make. I’ve been living in rent since college >10 years ago and I’m sick of it. You get no legal benefits when renting in Romania, everything is done by hiding from the state and local authorities. So you can’t…

No offense but I think you do not understand how privileged you are.

Re: Costs of running a macOS app studio business

#93

Post by groby_b »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #85
novok wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried the indie software thing like this guy? How has that been going? I feel like I have enough saved now that even if I can't get corporate work anymore due to age (which I kind of doubt due to the age of people I've worked with in FANG, and the fact I'm already pretty much a manager of managers, which tends to run older) that I would be pretty happy doing the indie thing too.

I'm working on apps for nonprofits that can't afford people of my caliber. I don't charge for my work, but take it every bit as seriously, as if I were. It's actually part of the satisfaction that I get from the work. Keeps me busy and up-to-date, and is extremely gratifying. I'm getting ready to release an app that is a top-to-bottom system, involving a couple of servers that I wrote, along with a fairly robust nati…

FWIW: For your non-profit work, I'd recommend charging full price as donation if your tax jurisdiction allows this.

Re: Costs of running a macOS app studio business

#94

Post by gumballindie »

xenospn wrote: post #49
gumballindie wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but people’s budgets are not made fully of restaurants and groceries. The bulk is made of housing, cars, phones, goods, clothes, which cost the same as western europe for the most part. In some cases I find food in the UK cheaper. Petrol is also comparable. While far from London the real estate market in a large city is comparable to say Manchester or similar. I doubt people writing apps live in areas where a ho…

Rent in Romania is similar to Western Europe? I thought the income levels were very very different.

Renting isnt as much a thing Romania. It’s a bit rare, like ownership in the UK.

Rent and prices for decent quality are similar. I know because I made investments there. Folks here are quoting some rather below par prices, that local usually stay away from _if they seek decent housing_. There are rundown areas, such as that where Tate lives - next to a cemetery - but a few streets further away and prices double. You dont see the upper extremes as in vest europe but for “regular” folks the col is similar.

Also there’s a lot of “under the table” money involved in buying property, so actual prices are way, way, higher than official figures. Typically if you wish to make some _very_ high margins you invest in bucharest or cluj. British expats living there extatic, not just because they could afford to buy (working locally albeit for western companies), but also because they made decent profits if they bought 5-6 years ago.

Re: Costs of running a macOS app studio business

#95

Post by newaccount74 »

w0mbat wrote: post #17

The Apple app store is a disaster for making a living as an indie. People can't find the apps so sales are low, market rate prices are also low. The only way to make a living is to rip-off users with misleading subscriptions, which I won't do. I made much more money writing $20 shareware in the 90s. That's why I write apps for a corporation now.

There are a bunch of people who make enough money to live on the App Store, even without subscriptions. I'm one of them. I've heard of a few others as well.

There are a lot of things that suck on the App Store, but it's definitely possible to make a living.

Re: Costs of running a macOS app studio business

#96

Post by alin23 »

rubymamis wrote: post #42

Thanks for sharing! What factors contributed to higher earnings from some apps compared to others?

Mostly, more work put into implementing features requested by users and fixing bugs reported by them, that’s what got me the most money.

Some might say that spending more time on marketing is what gets more money, and that’s a bit true. But only after you have a good base and you’re confident in your app being stable and providing utility. Otherwise, the advertising peaks will not result in sustained revenue, they’ll be just that, peaks.

Re: Costs of running a macOS app studio business

#97

Post by ljm »

asim wrote: post #22

This is a beautifully poignant post about life and selling one's time. At 39 I've reached this point where I can verbalise that sentiment whereas before I could only really feel it. Having to sell one's time to others sucks. Doing things on someone else's schedule sucks. And ultimately as the post ended, having the freedom to spend life the way it should be spent means sacrificing that extra bit of money we might wan…

I had a bit of a mental shift after I turned 30, realising I'd spent the best part of a decade building up my career in various ways.

I'm still in the typical 9-5 job since I'm way too young to retire (and we don't get paid the crazy money in the UK that software engineers in parts of the US do), but I've been able to settle on what I want and what I don't want so I have the power to walk away.

In the simplest terms, I just need to be at a place working on something I give a fuck about, which pushes me to smaller upstarts. This sometimes incurs a bit of a paycut but I see that as a worthwhile hit to take if I don't feel like I'm selling my soul to people I realise I don't want to work for.

Just gotta avoid the lifestyle creep so a temporary downsize doesn't contribute to mental distress.

Re: Costs of running a macOS app studio business

#98

Post by alin23 »

codingcodingboy wrote: post #92
alin23 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it’s a lot of money in Romania. I could live very comfortably if that would continue being the case. If I had my own place. My “not bad” remark is because I still can’t afford housing with all the money I make. I’ve been living in rent since college >10 years ago and I’m sick of it. You get no legal benefits when renting in Romania, everything is done by hiding from the state and local authorities. So you can’t…

No offense but I think you do not understand how privileged you are.

Offense seems to be the only thing you do around here. I know I’m privileged, I work with unprivileged people to help them get better sometimes and that is probably the best way to feel how much inequality there is between us.

Having a lot of money relative to the place you live in doesn’t guarantee your happiness. Privilege means nothing in the face of illness of a loved one, having to live with parents at 30 because you had to evacuate a rent made without contract and more things I would like to not share on a tech forum..

Please get a sense of what’s being talked around here, what’s the negativity for?

Re: Costs of running a macOS app studio business

#99

Post by ldoughty »

Exoristos wrote: post #33
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why I'm not that upset that no one wants to work with an old guy (that's me), and I was forced to retire. I still get to play with software, but on my own time, and on my own schedule. The difference is amazing .

How is that not actionable discrimination?

You do not often get an email to tell you you were not accepted for a position (unless you made it far in the process)

Businesses have pushed heavily for at-will employment; this means that businesses don't need to say why people are fired.

So they don't have to write down why you were not hired, nor why you were fired.

So you have to prove that you were not hired/or fired for being in a protected class. This is extremely difficult short of a recording of the interviewer saying e.g. "so you're pregnant?" => can possibly argue discrimination, but it's still difficult. This kind of stuff works in a panel interviews or bad work environment when you can compel testimony from other workers who would rather risk their job over jail... but doesn't work well in 1:1 or 2:1 situations where one or two people just need to lie to avoid the lawsuit.

Re: Costs of running a macOS app studio business

#100

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

groby_b wrote: post #93
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm working on apps for nonprofits that can't afford people of my caliber. I don't charge for my work, but take it every bit as seriously, as if I were. It's actually part of the satisfaction that I get from the work. Keeps me busy and up-to-date, and is extremely gratifying. I'm getting ready to release an app that is a top-to-bottom system, involving a couple of servers that I wrote, along with a fairly robust nati…

FWIW: For your non-profit work, I'd recommend charging full price as donation if your tax jurisdiction allows this.

Sadly, it does not. We're not allowed to declare "sweat equity."

If I was able to declare it, I'd never pay a dime in taxes.

I have heard that Steve Kamen, who wrote the "I Love New York" jingle, gave full rights to the state, and never has to pay state taxes. I haven't found anything that corroborates this, but it could very well be true.

The work I do, is for a demographic that tends to be ignored. I doubt there's any tax breaks, headed my way.

Post reply on HN