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Cummins pickup truck engines tricked air quality controls, feds say

usatoday.com

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Re: Cummins pickup truck engines tricked air quality controls, feds say

#31

Post by ToucanLoucan »

avidiax wrote: post #15
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #4

VW did it Renault probably did it These guys probably did I think there was a point where regulators said "diesel puts out lung damaging levels of pollutants killing X people a year. We shall either ban diesel engines ... or make manufacturers make diesel engines that don't pollute that badly" So they set a safe level. And no manufacturer has been able to achieve the technology to meet that level. I know some manufac…

> And no manufacturer has been able to achieve the technology to meet that level. Urea-injection seems to work (that's what Mercedes does). But it requires another tank and special equipment. And VW could meet the emissions requirements. That was the cheat. When they detected that they were being tested, they tuned the engine to meet emissions requirements. During normal use, the engine would make better power or eff…

It is wild to me that OEM's can straight up include tech to defeat emissions testing and be allowed to continue building engines after that is found. Like, all regulators should operate from the assumption that the entities they're regulating are working in good faith: but once it's been demonstrated they are not, how can you ever trust a product they produce again? They and every other company found to be doing this should be barred from producing engines for good. Or at the very fucking least, be subject to an INCREDIBLE level of scrutiny regarding their software for a solid many years to follow. Like, every single line audited for compliance.

Re: Cummins pickup truck engines tricked air quality controls, feds say

#32

Post by mh- »

avidiax wrote: post #15
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #4

VW did it Renault probably did it These guys probably did I think there was a point where regulators said "diesel puts out lung damaging levels of pollutants killing X people a year. We shall either ban diesel engines ... or make manufacturers make diesel engines that don't pollute that badly" So they set a safe level. And no manufacturer has been able to achieve the technology to meet that level. I know some manufac…

> And no manufacturer has been able to achieve the technology to meet that level. Urea-injection seems to work (that's what Mercedes does). But it requires another tank and special equipment. And VW could meet the emissions requirements. That was the cheat. When they detected that they were being tested, they tuned the engine to meet emissions requirements. During normal use, the engine would make better power or eff…

I believe it needed the efficiency gains to meet MPG (L/100km) requirements.

So it really couldn't meet both. At least not at the same time.

Re: Cummins pickup truck engines tricked air quality controls, feds say

#33

Post by anticensor »

mh- wrote: post #32
avidiax wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And no manufacturer has been able to achieve the technology to meet that level. Urea-injection seems to work (that's what Mercedes does). But it requires another tank and special equipment. And VW could meet the emissions requirements. That was the cheat. When they detected that they were being tested, they tuned the engine to meet emissions requirements. During normal use, the engine would make better power or eff…

I believe it needed the efficiency gains to meet MPG (L/100km) requirements. So it really couldn't meet both. At least not at the same time.

It can meet the fuel consumption requirements, but then it would lose at marketing due to the derating required.

Re: Cummins pickup truck engines tricked air quality controls, feds say

#34

Post by FPGAhacker »

luma wrote: post #11
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #4

VW did it Renault probably did it These guys probably did I think there was a point where regulators said "diesel puts out lung damaging levels of pollutants killing X people a year. We shall either ban diesel engines ... or make manufacturers make diesel engines that don't pollute that badly" So they set a safe level. And no manufacturer has been able to achieve the technology to meet that level. I know some manufac…

It’s actually worse than that - they set goals and then manufacturers started lying to meet those goals, which told the regulators that those goals were attainable and so they set new goals. The entire notion of clean diesel is a farce and has been built on lies from the outset.

It's a typical corporate effect. Management, with no expertise or even competency, creates absurd schedules and goals and thinks that somehow, just by fiat and edict, they can bend physics and make it so.

Re: Cummins pickup truck engines tricked air quality controls, feds say

#35

Post by s1artibartfast »

FPGAhacker wrote: post #34
luma wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually worse than that - they set goals and then manufacturers started lying to meet those goals, which told the regulators that those goals were attainable and so they set new goals. The entire notion of clean diesel is a farce and has been built on lies from the outset.

It's a typical corporate effect. Management, with no expertise or even competency, creates absurd schedules and goals and thinks that somehow, just by fiat and edict, they can bend physics and make it so.

Are we talking about the auto manufacturers or the government here?

Re: Cummins pickup truck engines tricked air quality controls, feds say

#36

Post by anticensor »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #35
FPGAhacker wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a typical corporate effect. Management, with no expertise or even competency, creates absurd schedules and goals and thinks that somehow, just by fiat and edict, they can bend physics and make it so.

Are we talking about the auto manufacturers or the government here?

Both parties set unattainable targets.

Re: Cummins pickup truck engines tricked air quality controls, feds say

#37

Post by thomasmg »

AmVess wrote: post #27
chrismartin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One more reason it's time to transition away from burning stuff to produce energy.

Transition to what, exactly? Pixie dust? Unicorn farts? There's nothing to transition to .

Elon Musk used an image of a farting unicorn to promote Tesla.

Re: Cummins pickup truck engines tricked air quality controls, feds say

#38

Post by treyd »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #31
avidiax wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And no manufacturer has been able to achieve the technology to meet that level. Urea-injection seems to work (that's what Mercedes does). But it requires another tank and special equipment. And VW could meet the emissions requirements. That was the cheat. When they detected that they were being tested, they tuned the engine to meet emissions requirements. During normal use, the engine would make better power or eff…

It is wild to me that OEM's can straight up include tech to defeat emissions testing and be allowed to continue building engines after that is found. Like, all regulators should operate from the assumption that the entities they're regulating are working in good faith: but once it's been demonstrated they are not, how can you ever trust a product they produce again? They and every other company found to be doing this…

Yet another reason the software running on these automotive systems should be free and open source. It would be great to see the control logic and know that it's doing the right thing.

Re: Cummins pickup truck engines tricked air quality controls, feds say

#39

Post by Cockbrand »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #31
avidiax wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And no manufacturer has been able to achieve the technology to meet that level. Urea-injection seems to work (that's what Mercedes does). But it requires another tank and special equipment. And VW could meet the emissions requirements. That was the cheat. When they detected that they were being tested, they tuned the engine to meet emissions requirements. During normal use, the engine would make better power or eff…

It is wild to me that OEM's can straight up include tech to defeat emissions testing and be allowed to continue building engines after that is found. Like, all regulators should operate from the assumption that the entities they're regulating are working in good faith: but once it's been demonstrated they are not, how can you ever trust a product they produce again? They and every other company found to be doing this…

Well, German politicians for one sure love their automotive industry, and it's traditionally more important to them than mostly everything else.

Re: Cummins pickup truck engines tricked air quality controls, feds say

#40

Post by jmvoodoo »

avidiax wrote: post #15
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #4

VW did it Renault probably did it These guys probably did I think there was a point where regulators said "diesel puts out lung damaging levels of pollutants killing X people a year. We shall either ban diesel engines ... or make manufacturers make diesel engines that don't pollute that badly" So they set a safe level. And no manufacturer has been able to achieve the technology to meet that level. I know some manufac…

> And no manufacturer has been able to achieve the technology to meet that level. Urea-injection seems to work (that's what Mercedes does). But it requires another tank and special equipment. And VW could meet the emissions requirements. That was the cheat. When they detected that they were being tested, they tuned the engine to meet emissions requirements. During normal use, the engine would make better power or eff…

I owned a Dodge ram diesel model that had one of these engines. It had urea injection, and I had to maintain the 2nd tank.
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