Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

"Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

publicola.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 34 posts

Re: "Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

#21

Post by baggy_trough »

chaosharmonic wrote: post #15
baggy_trough wrote: post #9

[flagged]

I lived in a large, left leaning metro area for 10yrs and they can't even be bothered to ban landlords from passing their business expenses to tenants as a condition for signing a lease. Because that's what brokers are when the only value they're providing is the work a landlord doesn't want to do, like advertising a space or handling lease paperwork. A business expense. You want to talk about what makes rents worse…

Why should that be banned? It's part of the transaction cost. People don't seem to understand that renting is, or should be, a voluntary transaction between a tenant and a landlord.

Re: "Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

#23

Post by reb »

bitwize wrote: post #16
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #10

A reminder that anytime an outlandish or shocking sounding claim is made, to follow up on its veracity. Usually it is much less surprising. For example: that lady that sued McDonald’s for coffee being hot… sued because the coffee was hot enough to melt flesh, which she experienced firsthand. And don’t take my word for it because that, too, is shocking. 0. 0 - https://www.tortmuseum.org/liebeck-v-mcdonalds/

And, famously, it turned out that the "brown M&Ms" clause in Van Halen's performance contract was a canary to see whether venues carefully read the contract -- not an example of rock star overweening entitlement. I remember an article about a letter Ayn Rand wrote to her teenage niece. It was clear from the article text surrounding the letter that the author intended for the reader to pass judgement against Rand as a…

Everyone should doublecheck sensationalist claims given the well-known incentives to lie, exaggerate, etc.

That said, cutting off contact with an under-age relative over a couple hundred dollars does sound like pretty miserly behavior. A lesson in the tenuousness of familial ties in the face of stubborn ideology, if anything.

Re: "Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

#24

Post by dghlsakjg »

bitwize wrote: post #16
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #10

A reminder that anytime an outlandish or shocking sounding claim is made, to follow up on its veracity. Usually it is much less surprising. For example: that lady that sued McDonald’s for coffee being hot… sued because the coffee was hot enough to melt flesh, which she experienced firsthand. And don’t take my word for it because that, too, is shocking. 0. 0 - https://www.tortmuseum.org/liebeck-v-mcdonalds/

And, famously, it turned out that the "brown M&Ms" clause in Van Halen's performance contract was a canary to see whether venues carefully read the contract -- not an example of rock star overweening entitlement. I remember an article about a letter Ayn Rand wrote to her teenage niece. It was clear from the article text surrounding the letter that the author intended for the reader to pass judgement against Rand as a…

Ayn Rand also didn't know the girl personally.

Basically, a relative that she didn't know wrote to her knowing she had money, and she said, sure, but since you aren't exactly close family, I'll put some conditions on it.

Like you said, if you want to get judgey with Ayn Rand, this is at the bottom of the list.

Re: "Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

#25

Post by jancsika »

drewcoo wrote: post #17
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #10

A reminder that anytime an outlandish or shocking sounding claim is made, to follow up on its veracity. Usually it is much less surprising. For example: that lady that sued McDonald’s for coffee being hot… sued because the coffee was hot enough to melt flesh, which she experienced firsthand. And don’t take my word for it because that, too, is shocking. 0. 0 - https://www.tortmuseum.org/liebeck-v-mcdonalds/

As anyone ever interviewed by a journalist or even remotely attached to a news-worthy event can tell you, it's not just the shocking claims that deserve follow-up. We're all prone to Gell-Mann amnesia. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/65213-briefly-stated-the-ge...

> We're all prone to Gell-Mann amnesia.

For those who don't know: Gell-Mann amnesia is the effect is what happens when you read a story in the newspaper about, say, the rampant corruption of the opioid crisis, but then turn the page and read about the Covid vaccine with fresh eyes.

It's basically like containerization for knowledge that helps prevent conspiratorial-thinking exploits. :)

Note: I am fully misrepresenting the intention of the phrase "Gell-Mann amnesia effect," but in a way that AFAICT is 100% consistent with its definition.

Re: "Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

#26

Post by chaosharmonic »

baggy_trough wrote: post #21
chaosharmonic wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in a large, left leaning metro area for 10yrs and they can't even be bothered to ban landlords from passing their business expenses to tenants as a condition for signing a lease. Because that's what brokers are when the only value they're providing is the work a landlord doesn't want to do, like advertising a space or handling lease paperwork. A business expense. You want to talk about what makes rents worse…

Why should that be banned? It's part of the transaction cost. People don't seem to understand that renting is, or should be, a voluntary transaction between a tenant and a landlord.

Posting to Craigslist because the landlords are too lazy to do it themselves is a reasonable part of the transaction cost?

And the thing is that it's not voluntary any more than grocery shopping is. You can maybe make a point about where (sort of -- where I live, this practice is actually allowed statewide, so it's not strictly a rural/urban divide), but that's a separate axis from whether or not people need places to live. (Theoretically buying is an option, but if renting is inaccessible, it's unlikely that you're really looking at homeownership either.)

This is just the same laissez-faire capitalism that gave us Ticketmaster, right down to being an identical business model.

Re: "Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

#27

Post by jmye »

aschla wrote: post #18

Trying not to sound as sensationalist as the original story, but this part specifically had me infuriated: "Hunter has had less luck. Of the news stories, he said: “They’re infuriating but they’re comical if you have the facts… I tried to give the facts to KIRO, I tried to give the facts to Daily Mail, I tried to give the facts to Business Insider. I would send them actual proof of everything, and none of that matter…

People are supposed to. But just like it’s easier (and more lucrative) to post mistruths for clicks, it’s easier (and more rewarding in terms of interaction and positive reinforcement) to play outrage in your social media reactions. “That was a good article” doesn’t get nearly the thumbs ups or engagement as “that was the worst pile of filth I’ve ever read and here’s why the author is literally Hitler”.

Both are also easier than simply paying for legitimate journalism (witness the vast number of articles here instantly posted to an archive site).

Society is the failure here - and social media is the medium. I say, unironically, on social media.

Re: "Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

#28

Post by fsckboy »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #10

A reminder that anytime an outlandish or shocking sounding claim is made, to follow up on its veracity. Usually it is much less surprising. For example: that lady that sued McDonald’s for coffee being hot… sued because the coffee was hot enough to melt flesh, which she experienced firsthand. And don’t take my word for it because that, too, is shocking. 0. 0 - https://www.tortmuseum.org/liebeck-v-mcdonalds/

hot liquids can burn. people like hot coffee. takeout coffee cools relatively quickly. coffee is made with boiling water. What temperature should a coffeeshop serve their coffee at? Who is responsible for what? I think the case was overblown. Life has risks, assume them or don't leave your house.

I understand that others might differ, they want only "safe" coffee to be served, but we're not looking at a "trolley problem." Less than hot coffee is just a different arbitrary line, one that will increase number of people disappointed by cold coffee. "hey, lower speeds save lives, let's put the highway speed limits at 45 and strictly enforce!" It's not something to make a morals case out of, it's a practical tradeoff.

Re: "Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

#29

Post by ceejayoz »

fsckboy wrote: post #28
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #10

A reminder that anytime an outlandish or shocking sounding claim is made, to follow up on its veracity. Usually it is much less surprising. For example: that lady that sued McDonald’s for coffee being hot… sued because the coffee was hot enough to melt flesh, which she experienced firsthand. And don’t take my word for it because that, too, is shocking. 0. 0 - https://www.tortmuseum.org/liebeck-v-mcdonalds/

hot liquids can burn. people like hot coffee. takeout coffee cools relatively quickly. coffee is made with boiling water. What temperature should a coffeeshop serve their coffee at? Who is responsible for what? I think the case was overblown. Life has risks, assume them or don't leave your house. I understand that others might differ, they want only "safe" coffee to be served, but we're not looking at a "trolley prob…

> What temperature should a coffeeshop serve their coffee at?

Not 190 degrees Fahrenheit.

Re: "Nightmare Tenant" Story Amplified by Seattle Times Crumbles Under Scrutiny

#30

Post by dang »

slackfan wrote: post #2

[flagged]

We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Post reply on HN