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The Richest Countries in 2023

economist.com

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Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#71

Post by thatwasunusual »

e12e wrote: post #69
thatwasunusual wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this data is available on the interwebz. I'm a Norwegian, but has worked in several countries around the world, among them the US. According to this site,[0] the median income in US and Norway was $24K-ish in 2021 (2019 numbers for Norway), while this Wikipedia article[1] lists countries based on average annual working hours (OECD, 2022). Based on this, we can deduce that: * Americans are paid $13.3/hour * Norweg…

Fwiw those numbers look sensible for Norway - but note that median household income after tax is about double (590k nok): https://www.ssb.no/statbank/sq/10090867 Not sure how that compares to the us numbers.

> but note that median household income after tax is about double (590k nok)

I think most people understand that if you add two people's median income, you'll end up with approx. the double. :)

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#73

Post by j7ake »

PCI-eX16 wrote: post #48
KoftaBob wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the lifestyle involves a certain size home, certain cars, vacations, etc then it's much harder to attain with Germany's average income vs the US.

Can you elaborate on this, because you probably can't get much of this with the average (let alone median, which is usually the measure for this sort of thing) US income at all. "Certain" is terribly vague, and US and Germany are both big countries. Your housing dollar goes a lot further in some places than others. I'll bet anything Germans have access to better vacations than Americans.

I’ll add that the average German in a major city like Berlin can be housed within walking distance to a local bakery, grocery, school/day care, and work. For Americans, long commute times from their presumably bigger homes is common..

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#74

Post by decafninja »

nus07 wrote: post #27
killdisk wrote: post #6

As an American living in Berlin for 2 years while working as a software dev, this article very much confirms my experience. The move started with a bit of sticker shock at having my income effectively cut in half - lower salaries and higher taxes - but I feel just as "rich". Germany has very strong worker protection laws, I feel secure in my job, the time off minimum STARTS at 28 days a year, + holidays + effectively…

Ehh we here in US got better things to do with taxes like spending it to build another fighter jet so we can send it to the Middle East in the name of Freedom . I am told you guys in Western Europe enjoy your stability because of the “freedom” we bring for all of you at the cost of our own healthcare , worker protections and social safety net. Look we are martyrs. *my brother in law lives in Germany making less than…

I more or less quadrupled my income a few years ago, and as someone who loves to travel, this has opened a lot of doors in terms of travel. I can travel to more places, for longer, not to mention doing so more comfortably/luxuriously. If before I could comfortably afford one international vacation a year, I can afford several.

Obviously I’m not aware of what you or your brother in law make, but I’d imagine you’d easily be able to replicate his Greek vacation if you’re making double what he is.

On a more general non-travel note, I feel after you exceed a certain threshold of income in the US, you can just bulldoze your way into matching or exceeding most of the European social benefits including healthcare. Definitely possible if you’re making FAANG or near-FAANG level.

On the subject of SWE comp, an Italian SWE colleague half jokingly told me he’d make more as a gondolier in Venice than in a typical Italian SWE job. Curious if that’s really true.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#75

Post by e12e »

thatwasunusual wrote: post #71
e12e wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fwiw those numbers look sensible for Norway - but note that median household income after tax is about double (590k nok): https://www.ssb.no/statbank/sq/10090867 Not sure how that compares to the us numbers.

> but note that median household income after tax is about double (590k nok) I think most people understand that if you add two people's median income, you'll end up with approx. the double. :)

That's true, but that's not quite the same as eg: single household median income vs median of all household incomes.

Let's say 90% of men in the US and Norway worked full-time and 80% of women in Norway and 60% in the US worked full-time (or vice-versa) - the various subsets of medians (individual vs families) might not be sensible to compare.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#76

Post by [deleted] »

decafninja wrote: post #74
nus07 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehh we here in US got better things to do with taxes like spending it to build another fighter jet so we can send it to the Middle East in the name of Freedom . I am told you guys in Western Europe enjoy your stability because of the “freedom” we bring for all of you at the cost of our own healthcare , worker protections and social safety net. Look we are martyrs. *my brother in law lives in Germany making less than…

I more or less quadrupled my income a few years ago, and as someone who loves to travel, this has opened a lot of doors in terms of travel. I can travel to more places, for longer, not to mention doing so more comfortably/luxuriously. If before I could comfortably afford one international vacation a year, I can afford several. Obviously I’m not aware of what you or your brother in law make, but I’d imagine you’d easi…

[deleted]

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#77

Post by landedgentry »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #60
landedgentry wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's death by a thousand paper cuts. A lot of things simply cannot be depended on to work in the U.S., and you have to spend a lot of time chasing them down. More examples: budgeting flexible spending accounts, choosing health insurance annually, finding doctors in your network (and checking again and again, with multiple sources), hotels losing your reservation, airlines overbooking flights, mail and deliveries disa…

> finding doctors in your network (and checking again and again, with multiple sources) I have a similar problem in Europe too. Most of the good public state-insurance doctors are overbooked and my option is to keep calling every doctor on a 50km radius continuously, hoping to find a free specialist with an appointment, or pay up privately out of my already small paycheck for a spot at a private doctor. >hotels losin…

I should've been clearer about the doctors. Whether a doctor is part of your insurance network can change unexpectedly when the contract/relationship between your doctor and the insurance company changes, even if you yourself don't change insurance. And this happens relatively often (annually and sometimes more). So you can get a surprising bill if you go back to the same doctor.

The databases that maintain this information are not always accurate or up-to-date. So the doctor might say one thing, the insurance company another, and both be wrong in subtle ways. Nobody knows what's going on. It's often a crapshoot what you'll owe after a simple doctor's visit, even if you've asked all the right questions and stick with the same doctors.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#78

Post by alberth »

killdisk wrote: post #6

As an American living in Berlin for 2 years while working as a software dev, this article very much confirms my experience. The move started with a bit of sticker shock at having my income effectively cut in half - lower salaries and higher taxes - but I feel just as "rich". Germany has very strong worker protection laws, I feel secure in my job, the time off minimum STARTS at 28 days a year, + holidays + effectively…

> ”the time off minimum STARTS at 28 days a year”

In German culture, do people take 100% of their allowed time off?

In US culture, it’s a bit frowned upon within certain fields.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#79

Post by Rant423 »

alberth wrote: post #78
killdisk wrote: post #6

As an American living in Berlin for 2 years while working as a software dev, this article very much confirms my experience. The move started with a bit of sticker shock at having my income effectively cut in half - lower salaries and higher taxes - but I feel just as "rich". Germany has very strong worker protection laws, I feel secure in my job, the time off minimum STARTS at 28 days a year, + holidays + effectively…

> ”the time off minimum STARTS at 28 days a year” In German culture, do people take 100% of their allowed time off? In US culture, it’s a bit frowned upon within certain fields.

>do people take 100% of their allowed time off?

Yes. In some places, they FORCE you to take your allowed time off

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#80

Post by KoftaBob »

PCI-eX16 wrote: post #48
KoftaBob wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if the lifestyle involves a certain size home, certain cars, vacations, etc then it's much harder to attain with Germany's average income vs the US.

Can you elaborate on this, because you probably can't get much of this with the average (let alone median, which is usually the measure for this sort of thing) US income at all. "Certain" is terribly vague, and US and Germany are both big countries. Your housing dollar goes a lot further in some places than others. I'll bet anything Germans have access to better vacations than Americans.

For example, if we compare the average homes in the US vs Germany, which it would be reasonable to assume is occupied by those in the average income bracket of those countries:

- The square footage in the American homes is almost double that of German homes, and European homes in general: https://mises.org/power-market/americans-have-much-more-livi...

> you probably can't get much of this with the average (let alone median, which is usually the measure for this sort of thing) US income at all. - Housing expenditure as percentage of the household income is lower in the US than pretty much everywhere in Europe, meaning American housing is more affordable with respect to American salaries: https://cdn.mises.org/styles/max_full/s3/hsgexpend_0.png

- If we're talking cars, the same car will usually cost more in Germany than it does in the US, despite the US buyer having a higher income: (Transportation section) https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_resu...

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