Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana • Hacker News Board

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#31

Post by aaomidi » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 6:57 PM UTC

codexb wrote: post #7

This will have virtually zero effect. The president only has the power to pardon people convicted or accused of violating federal law and prosecuted in federal court. The problem is that nearly all people arrested for simple possession of marijuana aren't charged under federal law nor prosecuted in federal court. They are charged under state law that similarly outlaws marijuana possession and prosecuted in state cour…

The president can however pardon in states using “emergency powers”.

Our constitution does not define the breadth and depth of emergency powers and it would be up for both congress and SCOTUS to decide that the president can’t do that.

I would hope that a president would just say fuck it and try this though. As much as I want things to be done “the right way”, I value lives of folks more than my neurodivergent desire to have things done neatly.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#32

Post by tptacek » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 6:57 PM UTC

kulahan wrote: post #5

tptacek wrote: post #2

Reminder that Biden can only pardon federal crimes, and that very few people have federal convictions for simple possession.

Smart to do what he unilaterally can considering how stalled things are right now.

The big limitation here is federal vs. state, not executive vs. legislative. Drug crime clemency isn't stalled in the states.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#33

Post by jkaplowitz » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 6:58 PM UTC

kredd wrote: post #16

theklr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rumor is it’s a done deal and they’re just weaponizing it for the election. I despise this is where we’ve come in political theater.

Would the House ever pass it as it would give a huge win to one side? A bit unaware in terms of US politics, but up here since legalization, life is exactly as it was before — people who smoked just continue to smoke but legally, people who don’t… don’t.

The House doesn’t have to do anything for rescheduling to happen. HHS (one federal agency) has already recommended it to DEA (another federal agency), which has the final say unless Congress were to affirmatively intervene.

With that said, they aren’t proposing to grant federal legality to the state-legal recreational marijuana market. They are planning to reclassify it from Schedule I (no recognized medical use) to Schedule III (the same category as anabolic steroids or testosterone and less restricted than Adderall), so the proposed federally legal way to get it would need a prescription and dispensing by a pharmacy or doctor.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#34

Post by aaomidi » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 6:58 PM UTC

djha-skin wrote: post #28

I didn't know blanket pardons were legal. Kind of feels like he's on shaky ground here. If this were allowed then all future presidents could veto in perpetuity any criminal law created by Congress. Speaking of which, his pardon only pardons those who have violated federal or DC laws, not state laws.

I mean, they have been. Trump pardoned so many people in his last few weeks.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#35

Post by cobbal » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 6:58 PM UTC

codexb wrote: post #7

This will have virtually zero effect. The president only has the power to pardon people convicted or accused of violating federal law and prosecuted in federal court. The problem is that nearly all people arrested for simple possession of marijuana aren't charged under federal law nor prosecuted in federal court. They are charged under state law that similarly outlaws marijuana possession and prosecuted in state cour…

The page mentions DC specifically, which is under federal jurisdiction. The headline may indeed be overselling the implications.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#36

Post by Digory » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 6:59 PM UTC

codexb wrote: post #7

This will have virtually zero effect. The president only has the power to pardon people convicted or accused of violating federal law and prosecuted in federal court. The problem is that nearly all people arrested for simple possession of marijuana aren't charged under federal law nor prosecuted in federal court. They are charged under state law that similarly outlaws marijuana possession and prosecuted in state cour…

As the proclamation says, the District of Columbia's local laws are technically federal laws. So it wipes out the convictions of a good number of people in one of our major cities.

I can't quite tell if this applies to military convictions. That would be the other area where the Federal government takes the time to prosecute something as minor as mere possession or use.

Another interesting question: does this actually pardon, or is it more like an open call for applications? It looks to me like you'd want to get that pardon certificate from the WH Pardon lawyer well before the next election.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#37

Post by tptacek » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 6:59 PM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #31

codexb wrote: post #7

This will have virtually zero effect. The president only has the power to pardon people convicted or accused of violating federal law and prosecuted in federal court. The problem is that nearly all people arrested for simple possession of marijuana aren't charged under federal law nor prosecuted in federal court. They are charged under state law that similarly outlaws marijuana possession and prosecuted in state cour…

The president can however pardon in states using “emergency powers”. Our constitution does not define the breadth and depth of emergency powers and it would be up for both congress and SCOTUS to decide that the president can’t do that. I would hope that a president would just say fuck it and try this though. As much as I want things to be done “the right way”, I value lives of folks more than my neurodivergent desire…

I don't think it is the case that the President can use "emergency powers" to pardon state crimes; the same argument suggests that the President can use those powers to declare themselves dictator for life.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#38

Post by kibwen » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 7:00 PM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #21

kredd wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the House ever pass it as it would give a huge win to one side? A bit unaware in terms of US politics, but up here since legalization, life is exactly as it was before — people who smoked just continue to smoke but legally, people who don’t… don’t.

DEA is not controlled by the house.

Marijuana cannot be legalized without an act of Congress. The executive branch could always just stop enforcing the laws passed by the legislative branch, but I thought we wanted less executive overreach.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#39

Post by jkaplowitz » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 7:00 PM UTC

aaomidi wrote: post #31

codexb wrote: post #7

This will have virtually zero effect. The president only has the power to pardon people convicted or accused of violating federal law and prosecuted in federal court. The problem is that nearly all people arrested for simple possession of marijuana aren't charged under federal law nor prosecuted in federal court. They are charged under state law that similarly outlaws marijuana possession and prosecuted in state cour…

The president can however pardon in states using “emergency powers”. Our constitution does not define the breadth and depth of emergency powers and it would be up for both congress and SCOTUS to decide that the president can’t do that. I would hope that a president would just say fuck it and try this though. As much as I want things to be done “the right way”, I value lives of folks more than my neurodivergent desire…

Nothing in currently recognized emergency powers allows the president to pardon state crimes, and in fact it’s very clearly settled law that he cannot do so.

No state or federal court is likely to respect or uphold such an abuse of power as long as US democracy remains intact … and while US democracy is very much in jeopardy right now, it won’t vanish before the next president takes over - Biden will follow the rules of the democratic system.

Re: Granting pardon for the offense of simple possession of or use of marijuana

#40

Post by unstatusthequo » Fri, Dec 22, 2023, 7:00 PM UTC

kstrauser wrote: post #3

I don't use cannabis. If it were to go away tomorrow, my life wouldn't change one bit. I am absolutely thrilled with this blanket pardon. Rephrasing the statement slightly, like: > I am pardoning additional individuals who may continue to experience the unnecessary collateral consequences of a conviction for simple possession of beer, attempted simple possession of beer, or use of beer. and it sounds utterly obvious,…

Well, not all states have drugs laws that are absurd. At least one decent thing about California, Oregon, and Washington is some sensibility about legalizing or at least not prosecuting non-dangerous drugs. But, sad to say the ultra religious/conservative states are still stuck in legacy reasoning and it will take generations to change minds. And yes, alcohol is much worse than marijuana, shrooms, LSD.