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African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

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Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#121

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Geisterde wrote: post #111
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are clearly irrational evil people that we just need to kill We don’t need to kill them. But it’s naive to think appeasement will work with folks calling for the destruction of an entire people. I suppose if I’m going to complain about us having to learn this lesson time and again, I should learn that well-meaning but tragically-naïve people will keep trying it, time and again. (Appeasement isn’t always irrati…

People argue about what motivated the 9/11 highjackers. Some will say, bin laden hated America, forget what he says about dual containment, he actually just hates us and is using that as a justification. Others will say, look, hes pointing out exactly what hes mad about, he says it right there. The former calls the latter naïve, the latter calls the former bellicose, they could well be both wrong. Maybe bin laden did…

> all suicide bombings from 1980 to 2005 were the result of a people being occupied

These aren’t suicide bombings. They’re helicopter-assisted seizures and anti-ship missile attacks.

> I find it far more likely that theyd rather be home with their kids than out in the field guarding an unguardable missile launcher

So would have many Nazis.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think the Houthis are evil. Their domestic war is entirely justified. Escalating to a regional conflict probably wasn’t their idea; the instructions came from Tehran.

We don’t fight to kill evil people, we fight to achieve objectives. Within the narrow scope of reopening the Bab-el-Mandab, negotiating isn’t an option because there is no single group who control all the Houthis’ armed forces except Tehran, and Tehran isn’t offering terms.

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#122

Post by smashah »

yard2010 wrote: post #112
smashah wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Going full ISIS out of the blue one day started it. It's stupid nonetheless.

Out of the blue? Religious zealots from all over the world flying in to join a militia to conduct mass killings of men, women and children on behalf of a fascist zionist "religious" ethnostate. Sounds like it's been going on for about 76 years.

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#123

Post by yard2010 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #79
yard2010 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Holocaust started in 1933

It’s classically held to have occurred between 1941 and 1945 [1], beginning around the attack on Pearl Harbor. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

"The Nazis developed their ideology based on racism and pursuit of "living space", and seized power in early 1933. In an attempt to force all German Jews to emigrate, the regime passed anti-Jewish laws and orchestrated a nationwide pogrom in November 1938. After Germany invaded Poland in September 1939, occupation authorities began to establish ghettos to segregate Jews. Following the invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941, 1.5 to 2 million Jews were shot by German forces and local collaborators."

People lived in ghettos and were executed before. I guess it depends how you define Holocaust tho

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#125

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Geisterde wrote: post #120
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iran deduces that the US isnt capable of doing the same to them Why do you think we moved a carrier strike group to the Strait of Hormuz before sailing it to Yemen [1]? [1] https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2023/11/27/ike-carr...

Make no mistake, the moment iran decides they are shutting the straight of hormuz, its shut, and it would take aircraft carriers at the bottom of the ocean to open it via force. The US is currently 5-10 years behind in weapons technology, and iran has a lot of those weapons waiting in systems of mountain range bunkers that you would have to get through. War with iran will be as historically significant as the sacking…

> the moment iran decides they are shutting the straight of hormuz, its shut

We are threatening to shut the Strait. We sailed a CVN to Hormuz to telegraph two can tango.

> US is currently 5-10 years behind in weapons technology

Compared to Iran?!

We’re literally liquidating their newest air-defence systems with 90s-era kit in Ukraine.

> War with iran will be as historically significant as the sacking of rome on our own economy and global reputation

This is stupid. We could topple Tehran with de minimis force reduction from offshore. We might lose some ships, which would be a high cost, but nothing catastrophic.

The catastrophe would be the power vacuum that follows. Which is why nobody is threatening total war with Iran.

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#126

Post by bigbluedots »

bluGill wrote: post #97
AlecSchueler wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China would sooner reroute that get involved in conflicts so far from home. You're blaming people who aren't American for not being American enough. Not everything has to be resolved violently.

China is involved by coming out aginst Isreal. Thus they support this terror campaign overall.

Criticising Israel != supporting terrorism

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#127

Post by ceejayoz »

smashah wrote: post #119
ceejayoz wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe freedom and sovereignty haters might disagree but Yemen has the right to control what goes through their own waters. The Houthis aren't the recognized sovereign government of Yemen, though. International law doesn't grant them those rights over the strait, either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transit_passage

That's for the Yemeni government forces to sort out. Not for hackernews Yemen-flattening enthusiasts to determine.

> That's for the Yemeni government forces to sort out.

Anyone who starts taking potshots at civilian neutrally-flagged ships in international waters should not be surprised by a response.

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#128

Post by zdragnar »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #105
zdragnar wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense; take them at their word. On October 31 they vowed to attack Israeli targets until the military action in Gaza stops. They later said they would target any ship that was headed to an Israeli port. There have been literally dozens of news articles quoting them. The only reason to not consider it an act of war is to avoid recognizing their legitimacy as a governing force.

> later said they would target any ship that was headed to an Israeli port Sure. Then they hit a Norwegian tanker carrying biofuel to Italy [1]. Then another Norwegian ship [2]. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/cruise-missile-yem... [2] https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/18/politics/uss-carney-red-sea/i...

They claim to believe that the STRINDA was going to make a delivery at an Israeli port:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/cruise-missile-yem....

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#129

Post by jltsiren »

no_wizard wrote: post #84
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is the de facto Shia Government of Yemen They “exert de facto authority over the bulk of North Yemen” [1]. The problem is there is no single person who controls their armed groups. So striking a deal with one person provides zero assurance around what the others will do. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movement#Houthi-contr...

I for the life of me can't figure out how countries end up in situations where a large subset of said population is not only armed by effectively uncontrollable by the government. How do they get money for arms? Where do the arms come from? Why is the government unable to exert any realistic control within their own borders? I know its a complex political problem, but I still don't get how in 2023 we still have warlo…

It often happens because the country never made any sense.

There used to be two Yemens caught between the Ottomans and the British. The North became an independent kingdom and then a republic, while the South was first a British protectorate and then a communist state. Both had civil wars, and there were at least two wars between the two. When communism fell in Europe, the two Yemens unified and had a civil war. Then there were a couple of decades of uneasy peace before the current war.

Re: African Ports Overwhelmed by Red Sea Reroutings

#130

Post by JumpCrisscross »

yard2010 wrote: post #123
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s classically held to have occurred between 1941 and 1945 [1], beginning around the attack on Pearl Harbor. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

"The Nazis developed their ideology based on racism and pursuit of "living space", and seized power in early 1933. In an attempt to force all German Jews to emigrate, the regime passed anti-Jewish laws and orchestrated a nationwide pogrom in November 1938. After Germany invaded Poland in September 1939, occupation authorities began to establish ghettos to segregate Jews. Following the invasion of the Soviet Union in…

> guess it depends how you define Holocaust

True. I think it’s most broadly held as the industrial liquidation of the Jewish people (alongside other undesirables). Everything else was sadly precedented.

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