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The Richest Countries in 2023

economist.com

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Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#41

Post by roflyear »

killdisk wrote: post #6

As an American living in Berlin for 2 years while working as a software dev, this article very much confirms my experience. The move started with a bit of sticker shock at having my income effectively cut in half - lower salaries and higher taxes - but I feel just as "rich". Germany has very strong worker protection laws, I feel secure in my job, the time off minimum STARTS at 28 days a year, + holidays + effectively…

It's funny in a way: because the US spends so much on its military, its allies do not have to. This of course is an enormous benefit to the US: but it's a great way for allies of the US to prosper under the might of the US military while maintaining security in this regard.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#42

Post by Thaxll »

KoftaBob wrote: post #32
j7ake wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this lifestyle involves having two kids or more, then Germany wins hands down

But if the lifestyle involves a certain size home, certain cars, vacations, etc then it's much harder to attain with Germany's average income vs the US.

Vacations for Europeans has another meaning, they get weeks, sometime even months each year, in the US there is not even a minimum. The average is 11 days in the states, it's really pathetic.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#43

Post by refurb »

I think one has to be careful with the “hours worked”. I noticed Singapore takes a huge hit, but after working there, the hours often include a 2hr lunch, and frequent breaks.

At least at the company I was at, people got less work done in 10 hours than my American coworkers did in 7.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#44

Post by evancox100 »

TheFragenTaken wrote: post #5

I read into the numbers behind "hours worked" from OECD [1]. It seems wild to me that the United States on average works 500 more hours a year, compared to the top counties on that list, and 300 more than the EU average. I've never really been a proponent (or opponent) of the four-day work week, but this seems to indicate you become "richer" if you work less. At least according to this type of ranking. [1]: https://d…

As a US worker that regularly interfaces with colleagues in various EU/UK sites, I am not at all surprised by the discrepancy.

Edit: Elaborating… in my experience entire countries will be on holiday for up to a month at a time, while the US offices are chugging along. (And this by and large isn’t true the opposite direction, except for Thanksgiving week.)

I’m not saying it is good or bad either way, but the US prioritizes work far more than other OECD / developed countries.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#45

Post by firewire »

0xDEF wrote: post #25
killdisk wrote: post #6

As an American living in Berlin for 2 years while working as a software dev, this article very much confirms my experience. The move started with a bit of sticker shock at having my income effectively cut in half - lower salaries and higher taxes - but I feel just as "rich". Germany has very strong worker protection laws, I feel secure in my job, the time off minimum STARTS at 28 days a year, + holidays + effectively…

It is worth pointing out that we Northern Europeans can only afford this because we have a small group of highly competitive and wealth generating companies and sectors. We would be in a dire situation here in Denmark without Novo Nordisk. 1-2 years ago it was Maersk, DSV etc. that held up our economy because freight prices were high.

Denmark, Sweden, and Finland have economies that are nowhere near as concentrated as the two other Nordic nations. Norway is analogous to a Middle Eastern petrostate with over 60% of their economy being derived from oil. Iceland is also heavily reliant on aluminum mining and fishing with those two sectors making up over 70% of their economy.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#46

Post by loufe »

0xDEF wrote: post #22
joenot443 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some day we'll lose this ability and it'll be a sad day for HN. Feels like a special trick we've got to enjoy while we can. Nice submission OP - I learned something.

It is also interesting that some of highest income people on Earth use the archive trick instead of paying to get through the paywall. Who actually pays for legacy media anymore?

That's a fair point. It's still true that wealth is not built by permitting frivolous spending. With all the posts on HN I find interesting, I feel like It's the television chanal package effect. Even avid news readers would not have subscriptions to all the varied news sources here. About 90% of the time I pay for an honest Economist subcription. It's great, but pricey. Even if I wanted to, I could not afford simultaneous FT, Economist, NYT, Globe&Mail, etc. subscriptions.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#47

Post by FirmwareBurner »

roflyear wrote: post #41
killdisk wrote: post #6

As an American living in Berlin for 2 years while working as a software dev, this article very much confirms my experience. The move started with a bit of sticker shock at having my income effectively cut in half - lower salaries and higher taxes - but I feel just as "rich". Germany has very strong worker protection laws, I feel secure in my job, the time off minimum STARTS at 28 days a year, + holidays + effectively…

It's funny in a way: because the US spends so much on its military, its allies do not have to. This of course is an enormous benefit to the US: but it's a great way for allies of the US to prosper under the might of the US military while maintaining security in this regard.

>because the US spends so much on its military, its allies do not have to

The US also doesn't have to spend so much on military considering it has no enemies at it's borders. It can always ramp down and spend the extra on social services. Ask yourself why doesn't it do that?

>but it's a great way for allies of the US to prosper under the might of the US military while maintaining security in this regard

Oh please, stop being so generous with your allies, you don't have to. You have this a bit backwards.

It's mainly the US who prospers from the oversized military. Do you think the US would stay the world reserve currency and as influential on the world stage in terms of decision making, if the US had the military the size of Denmark? It's precisely that powerful military that allows the US to dictate a lot of international terms and deals in its favor: "Oh, you're a commie nation with different values than us? Then enjoy our globally imposed embargo and sanctions that will impoverish your people."

The US could save a lot of money by shrinking its military and global influence to just cover the US/NA instead of the whole world, but then that would leave a worldwide power vacuum that China will gladly fill and that would also make the US less influential and therefore poorer.

So you see, the US spends 'hella stacks' to be the world reigning superpower because it profits more than it spends.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#48

Post by PCI-eX16 »

KoftaBob wrote: post #32
j7ake wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this lifestyle involves having two kids or more, then Germany wins hands down

But if the lifestyle involves a certain size home, certain cars, vacations, etc then it's much harder to attain with Germany's average income vs the US.

Can you elaborate on this, because you probably can't get much of this with the average (let alone median, which is usually the measure for this sort of thing) US income at all. "Certain" is terribly vague, and US and Germany are both big countries. Your housing dollar goes a lot further in some places than others.

I'll bet anything Germans have access to better vacations than Americans.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#49

Post by loufe »

evancox100 wrote: post #44
TheFragenTaken wrote: post #5

I read into the numbers behind "hours worked" from OECD [1]. It seems wild to me that the United States on average works 500 more hours a year, compared to the top counties on that list, and 300 more than the EU average. I've never really been a proponent (or opponent) of the four-day work week, but this seems to indicate you become "richer" if you work less. At least according to this type of ranking. [1]: https://d…

As a US worker that regularly interfaces with colleagues in various EU/UK sites, I am not at all surprised by the discrepancy. Edit: Elaborating… in my experience entire countries will be on holiday for up to a month at a time, while the US offices are chugging along. (And this by and large isn’t true the opposite direction, except for Thanksgiving week.) I’m not saying it is good or bad either way, but the US priori…

I think it's also an artifact of the size of the US labour market. The huge labour pool in the single market makes for strong competition jobs. It's a race to the bottom for pay and working conditions for tons of folks.

Re: The Richest Countries in 2023

#50

Post by landedgentry »

gumby wrote: post #26
killdisk wrote: post #6

As an American living in Berlin for 2 years while working as a software dev, this article very much confirms my experience. The move started with a bit of sticker shock at having my income effectively cut in half - lower salaries and higher taxes - but I feel just as "rich". Germany has very strong worker protection laws, I feel secure in my job, the time off minimum STARTS at 28 days a year, + holidays + effectively…

The metrics are complex and ill understood, because few people can make the comparison you have. The thing that jumps out to me about life in the USA is how much time you spend maintaining it rather than living it. Chasing down bills for health care, until recently a lack of autopay, steady stream of paperwork and decisions from the schools…just a million fine-grained decisions and responsibilities when compared to o…

It's death by a thousand paper cuts. A lot of things simply cannot be depended on to work in the U.S., and you have to spend a lot of time chasing them down.

More examples: budgeting flexible spending accounts, choosing health insurance annually, finding doctors in your network (and checking again and again, with multiple sources), hotels losing your reservation, airlines overbooking flights, mail and deliveries disappearing, people promising and not returning calls, etc.

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