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Tech's DEI backlash is here

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Re: Tech's DEI backlash is here

#11

Post by sdsd »

Oof. I bet people are reticent to post any comments here. That's good - it's hard to post about this topic in a way that doesn't detract from the overall tone and quality of HN.

No one wants to post some James Damore screed decrying the longhouse, nor some 2010s style social justice screed.

No matter which side you argue, you'll get a 1,000 very uninteresting comments from uncurious ideologues doing their duty to defend The Good Truth. I don't like to talk to these partisan soldiers, but rather, curious scouts having fun exploring ideas. Maybe that's because I have the privilege to not take these ideas so personally, or maybe I'm a brave hero speaking out against the HR scolds.

Blegh. It's all so tired. Mom and dad arguing in the other room, about things which are surely much more important than my gameboy, but which nevertheless seem much less interesting to me.

By the time I post, others will have gotten here sooner. We'll see if my pessimism is justified. I'm gonna close my laptop, since clearly I'm procrastinating instead of finishing that keylogging article I'm supposed to be writing. I'll write it at home. I miss my babies.

Hope you all have a merry Christmas btw!

Re: Tech's DEI backlash is here

#12

Post by rurp »

xvector wrote: post #4

> DEI [ensures] a firm or company attracts a diverse pool of talent, hires and promotes people without bias, and fosters positive working environments so all individuals can thrive. What an incredibly biased take by the author, who clearly has not worked at one of these companies and seen DEI in action. Having actually worked at big tech companies with DEI initiatives, there have been many instances when we have had…

That quote is not only biased, the "without bias" part is strictly wrong. Treating people differently based solely on their race or gender is a core part of most DEI programs. Just because the proponents think it's "good" discrimination or bias, doesn't give those words the opposite meaning.

Re: Tech's DEI backlash is here

#14

Post by feedforward »

xvector wrote: post #4

> DEI [ensures] a firm or company attracts a diverse pool of talent, hires and promotes people without bias, and fosters positive working environments so all individuals can thrive. What an incredibly biased take by the author, who clearly has not worked at one of these companies and seen DEI in action. Having actually worked at big tech companies with DEI initiatives, there have been many instances when we have had…

> a grift on top of the hard work of those that actually drove a company to success

Where does the profits and dividends sent off to the idle class aristocracy fit into this constellation? Your resentment seems to mostly be that some dufferent people might be at the workplace.

Re: Tech's DEI backlash is here

#15

Post by woodpanel »

Couple of years ago I've excelled at a lead position interview, we've arrived at the part where I get to just spitball questions about their company, team and overall culture.

I just talked about how I think it is important for leaders to have an extra-fine antenna for the psychological well-being of your colleages when in a remote-first environment. The moment I uttered the word "psychological" it triggered the interviewer's DEI-driven buzzword thesaurus and he immediately started talking endlessly about their efforts for "Inclusivity" which of course stands for: if a non-straight, non-white, non-male candidate existed alongside me, they would've of course chosen him/her/... instead of me.

I know that this is what it meant because this were his exact words ;-) (which he confided in me thinking I would see statements like these as a good thing and not a massive red-flag)

Needless to say I declined.

Re: Tech's DEI backlash is here

#16

Post by blondie9x »

DEI is truly division and exclusion. It is a euphemism for new types of discrimination. Hopefully Supreme Court rules on this soon as they did on affirmative action.

You cannot fix the world by implementing new types of bias and discrimination, even if it is being wrapped up and sold as diversity and inclusion or however else it is pitched. This should be unconstitutional and against the Equal Protection Clause in the Constitution period.

We cannot and should not ever judge a book by its cover. We must always focus on merit, ability, and equality first. However, I do think society needs to provide social nets to help people get free education that are not able to afford it if the education has promise to lead to great career opportunities.

From the film Lincoln, 'Euclid's first common notion is this: "Things which are equal to the same thing are equal to each other." That's a rule of mathematical reasoning. It's true because it works; has done and will always will do. In his book, Euclid says this is "self-evident." You see, there it is, even in that two-thousand year old book of mechanical law: it is a self-evident truth of things which are equal to the same thing, are equal to each other. We begin with equality. That's the origin, isn't it? That balance-that's fairness, that's justice.'

We are all homo sapiens and need to be treated fairly, equally. No one should be given structural preferential bias on a public or private level. We have fought so hard for equality in this country, DEI is a step backwards in equality by sanctioning new biases.

Re: Tech's DEI backlash is here

#17

Post by xvector »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #10

DEI as a philosophy is fundamentally flawed. Its whole premise is alleviating racism in the workplace, yet its practical effect is giving certain races a favorable edge in the hiring process, independent of merit. Is this not in itself inherently racist? I raised this with colleagues on a few separate ocassions and was promptly shunned, yet they didn't have an answer. Most recently when he hired an engineer from one…

Yes, hiring a no-hire engineer to meet DEI quotas is completely unacceptable, but who is going to risk their job to suggest that? A culture of fear has been created around speaking out against stuff like this.

Your coworkers probably agree with you, but conversations critical of DEI efforts in the workplace are radioactive as HR will come down on you for being racist or whatever.

Thus, the DEI bubble in any corporation is completely insulated from checks and balances or internal critical feedback.

Re: Tech's DEI backlash is here

#18

Post by giraffe_lady »

xvector wrote: post #4

> DEI [ensures] a firm or company attracts a diverse pool of talent, hires and promotes people without bias, and fosters positive working environments so all individuals can thrive. What an incredibly biased take by the author, who clearly has not worked at one of these companies and seen DEI in action. Having actually worked at big tech companies with DEI initiatives, there have been many instances when we have had…

I feel like you should take some responsibility for your own resentment rather than passively saying another party has "fostered" it.

I'm not a fan of corporate and especially tech DEI initiatives either, I don't think they're an effective way to achieve their stated goals. But the hiring bar thing just does not match my experience at all. Some of the worst teams I've been on have been behind some of the most grueling & "selective" interview processes and some of the best teams have had lax ones. Given how poor we are at actually predicting who is going to be a good coworker we might as well allow some other backgrounds in.

Re: Tech's DEI backlash is here

#19

Post by xvector »

feedforward wrote: post #14
xvector wrote: post #4

> DEI [ensures] a firm or company attracts a diverse pool of talent, hires and promotes people without bias, and fosters positive working environments so all individuals can thrive. What an incredibly biased take by the author, who clearly has not worked at one of these companies and seen DEI in action. Having actually worked at big tech companies with DEI initiatives, there have been many instances when we have had…

> a grift on top of the hard work of those that actually drove a company to success Where does the profits and dividends sent off to the idle class aristocracy fit into this constellation? Your resentment seems to mostly be that some dufferent people might be at the workplace.

I am fine with different competent people at the workplace. I am frustrated with having to forcibly hire a no-hire candidate to meet a diversity quota.

I am annoyed by the fact that DEI is not targeted by layoffs but ostensibly contribute less to the company than engineering. I find it ridiculous that no one can criticize these initiatives without being labeled racist and fired by HR.

Re: Tech's DEI backlash is here

#20

Post by EA-3167 »

sdsd wrote: post #11

Oof. I bet people are reticent to post any comments here. That's good - it's hard to post about this topic in a way that doesn't detract from the overall tone and quality of HN. No one wants to post some James Damore screed decrying the longhouse, nor some 2010s style social justice screed. No matter which side you argue, you'll get a 1,000 very uninteresting comments from uncurious ideologues doing their duty to def…

IMO some topics can't be meaningfully discussed between a group of largely anonymous people, especially when the existence of... hostile interlocutors is always present. There are people I know offline who I'd avoid discussing these topics with, never mind millions of people I've never met, who's body language I can't see, and who's sincerity I can't identify.

As you said, it's tiring, and there are other things to talk about online that don't inevitably lead to the worst possible outcomes.

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