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Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#151

Post by solomoncaygnuyo »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #27
A_Duck wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline glosses over "The court heard that Kurtaj had been violent while in custody with dozens of reports of injury or property damage."

Custody is violence. Most people respond with patience, because they understand deescalation is their best move. This person has Autism. I think it's not a leap to conclude that he simply doesn't understand that deescalation is the right move. He may not even realize or totally comprehend that deescalation is an option! If you want to convince me this person is a menace to society, then talk about his behavior before…

> If you want to convince me this person is a menace to society, then talk about his behavior before being arrested. What did he do then?

He's part of a hacker group who steals data and extorts companies for money. And he talks about how he can't wait to do more crime when he gets out of lockup. It's all there in the article.

I know, crime against big companies isn't "real crime" as far as many are concerned, but these companies employ real people, and when they take a big financial hit due to cyber crime like this, it can affect peoples' jobs and livelihood. Because the companies will choose to keep paying the CEO a ridiculous sum while laying off lower-level employees to even out the cost of the ransom (if it's paid) or the financial loss caused from the data leakage (difficult to estimate, but a material loss nonetheless that the bean counters will have to account for).

The article also mentioned how they stole from individuals' crypto wallets.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#152

Post by PrimeMcFly »

miki123211 wrote: post #140
PrimeMcFly wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> RTFA. They tried restricting him, and he used a fire stick and a a phone to commit another major breach while out on bail. Then he told the court that he planned to keep hacking if he was released again. I did RTFA. I'm saying he could have been denied access to any electronic devices without supervision, which I think would be a better alternative.

define "electronic devices." What about credit cards? aTMs? Self-service checkouts? PIN pads (the things Europeans have to use in stores to pay by card)? Ticket machines and turnstiles? cars? radios? TVS? All of these sound pretty harmless and are necessary to have a life these days, but he did demonstrate that he can use a TV for hacking.

> define "electronic devices."

Smartphones and computers, anything with a keyboard and internet connection, and sufficient freedom to go anywhere eon the internet from the device.

> (the things Europeans have to use in stores to pay by card

I mean those are in every country. PINs are not always needed for credit card purchases but they are for debit card purchases.

> but he did demonstrate that he can use a TV for hacking.

A smart TV in conjunction with a phone and a firestick.

No reason he couldn't have a dumb TV.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#153

Post by mschuster91 »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #93
thomastjeffery wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because a company chooses to spend millions of dollars to "repair" damage does not mean that the damage itself should be valued the same. We are talking about companies with tens or hundreds of billions of dollars at their disposal. An executive could choose to spend $5 million on anything: that doesn't make the thing that valuable.

Ok. Ignore the dollar amount. His actions have physically injured people, destroyed property, and caused hundreds or thousands of people to spend otherwise productive time on fixing things. This wasn’t some hacker poking around because he could. He was stealing assets and then trying to ransom them back. He also just straight up stole crypto.

> This wasn’t some hacker poking around because he could. He was stealing assets and then trying to ransom them back.

If he managed to do that using nothing more than a TV and an Android device, I have absolutely zero sympathy with his victims. In the end, I'd even classify that as a public service, getting these companies to up their security game at least to some standard.

> He also just straight up stole crypto.

And here I have even less sympathy. I have grown to hate anything crypto-currency with a passion, simply because it's even more enticing to criminals than a locked safe room full of diamonds.

Don't get me wrong: It's still not correct what he did. Lock him up in prison like every other random criminal. But it's not "lock him up for life"-worthy, not by any means.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#154

Post by keep_reading »

theultdev wrote: post #59
keep_reading wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see all those homeless people? The tent cities? That's because they have nowhere to go anymore. A ton of those people are mentally ill. Yes, those mental hospitals were terribly run. But we need to create a safe place for these people. We can't just give up because of mistakes made in the past. https://www.civilbeat.org/2018/06/health-beat-bring-back-the...

all those homeless is incredibly generalizing, there's many reasons to be homeless. but the top ones are drugs and mental illness. many are drug addicted, they would have somewhere to go but they opted out of society (well, they aren't in the forest so not full opt-out) but yes a combination of state run rehab / mental hospitals seems to be the only solution, but is it done by force? if it's not forced you'll have a…

> but is it done by force?

Yes, of course. Do you really think most of these people even in the care of their own family would have complete agency over their lives? No, they'd be declared unfit and their Power of Attorney would be delegated to someone else.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#155

Post by Nextgrid »

mk_stjames wrote: post #107
funshed wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says does it not, social engineering. Getting access to there discord, etc.. A skill in itself but not 0day or anything.

It says "He broke into the company's internal Slack messaging system ". It does seem likely their approach is something along the lines of phishing or, given some of the other notes in the article, a combination of social engineering or stalking and blackmail... I have a feeling a lot of these hacker groups that are heard about do very little code exploitation. I think a lot of it is: find info on employees of a comp…

> If the news agencies were better at reporting

The problem is that reporting the truth - "socially-awkward teens hacked their way into large companies by manipulating their idiot employees and exploiting lax security policies" would force many powerful people into answering uncomfortable questions and expose incompetence at many levels.

Keep in mind that at least one of the hacked companies (BT - British Telecom) is culturally relevant in the UK and sadly it is mostly considered as trusted and competent by the general non-technical population. Hell, they've even got a cybersecurity arm: https://www.globalservices.bt.com/en/solutions/security

It would be really inconvenient if it became common knowledge that all this perceived trust & competence was nothing more than smoke & mirrors and that some kids can blow right through it.

Therefore, there's a vested interest all the way up from the government to make the hack more sophisticated than it really is and the hacker a meaner monster than he is. That's also the reason behind the disproportionate sentence, despite similar phishing/social engineering/stalking crimes against the layman not being prosecuted at all.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#156

Post by thomastjeffery »

hooverd wrote: post #146
thomastjeffery wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't feel remorse for his crimes. Am I a psychopath? Hacking a game company just so you can show people what is being worked on should not be a crime .

Not even the theft or blackmail?

Sure, but not a life sentence.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#157

Post by thomastjeffery »

crazygringo wrote: post #97
thomastjeffery wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patience isn't just about time. Sure they were willing to wait, but what were they waiting for ? The result was pretty clear from the beginning.

I still don't know what any of that means. Then what is patience about? Who is "they"? What does it matter if people can guess at an outcome based on prior experience? I still don't know what you mean by "patience" and I still don't know what relevance it has here.

By "they", I mean everyone in this story except the defendant. I mean the justice system itself. "They" should be held to a high standard of expectations.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#158

Post by golergka »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #45

Life in prison for up to $10m in damages? At first I thought the number must be off by a factor of 10. I couldn’t help but see Dr Evil for a moment. These are at best property crimes, and while the sums are non trivial, sentencing children to indefinite imprisonment for a nonviolent crime against a megacorp is unconscionable.

No, not life in prison. Detention in a psychiatric hospital for an autistic person who is violently attacking other people.

> dozens of reports of injury or property damage

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#159

Post by networkchad »

whalesalad wrote: post #135
LorenPechtel wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note the violence. This is a person that can't control themselves when things don't go their way.

> dozens of reports of injury or property damage. Eh, this is not outside the realm of expectations for an autistic teenager. Anyone locked in a cage will lash out, especially if they have neurological issues. There is a way to harness this energy regardless.

> There is a way to harness this energy regardless.

Yeah, it is called prison. I don't care if someone is "autistic" or "shit-head asshole". If you are a violent son of a bitch, I have a concrete cage with bars to house you in.

Re: Lapsus$: GTA 6 hacker handed indefinite hospital order

#160

Post by crazygringo »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #157
crazygringo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't know what any of that means. Then what is patience about? Who is "they"? What does it matter if people can guess at an outcome based on prior experience? I still don't know what you mean by "patience" and I still don't know what relevance it has here.

By "they", I mean everyone in this story except the defendant. I mean the justice system itself. "They" should be held to a high standard of expectations.

> "They" should be held to a high standard of expectations.

OK, and the justice system is. It's full of professionals, processes, training, exams, appeals processes, etc. They are held to very high standards.

Why do you say we don't expect patience from them, and why is that relevant?

Legal professionals like lawyers and judges seem incredibly patient, as the processes they deal with generally take months and even years.

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