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Flare, a video sharing site built on Nostr

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Re: Flare, a video sharing site built on Nostr

#141

Post by jgilias »

halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #93
jgilias wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He’s getting downvoted because that’s a solved problem in the wider crypto-space. To log in you sign a message using your hardware wallet. Nostr hasn’t grown up to that yet, and pointing out that pasting private keys is a bad idea is fair game. But implying that public private key cryptography can’t be used to log into web apps is just silly given that value worth billions is being moved around daily using such web a…

There's a reason why social logins, magic links and SMS login codes are so ubiquitous now - end users want 0 friction getting into their accounts. This increases friction beyond what is currently common practice. No, the public doesn't want nor care about using a key to log in.

You should try logging into a “web3” app to see what I’m talking about. No need to buy crypto or anything, of course. Just for the science.

A short guide, assuming a mobile device:

1. Install MetaMask, next, next, finish to create a wallet.

2. Open app.uniswap.org on your favorite browser. See if you can figure out how to ‘connect’.

You can of course use the MetaMask built-in browser, but that’d be cheating.

Re: Flare, a video sharing site built on Nostr

#142

Post by the_gastropod »

rglullis wrote: post #139
the_gastropod wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decentralization doesn't mean much of anything on its own. There are "decentralized" setups that do moderation fairly well (e.g., Mastodon or most oldschool web forums, where there's ultimately someone accountable). This (Nostr), specifically [1], makes fun of such setups. To moderate any system, there must be affordances for moderation and someone(s) accountable to the users of the system. As far as I can tell, like…

Nostr makes fun of the idea that you can have centralized moderation and moves it explicitly to the relays. It is up to the relay owner to determine what is allowed or not.

Which practically means unanimous agreement is needed among all relays in order to moderate anything. I also don't see what incentive / accountability relays face to remove content. So... I don't see that strategy being particularly effective. But hey! If more than a couple dozen people wind up actually using the thing, guess we'll find out!

Re: Flare, a video sharing site built on Nostr

#143

Post by vnuge »

jgilias wrote: post #56
Retr0id wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted here. In any other context, "paste in the private key that your identity is irrevocably bound to" would get you laughed out of the room. It seems to be the default nostr UX nonetheless, and that's worthy of note. I am aware of efforts to improve on this though, for example https://snort.social/e/note1crl44xk24yc2ym5xlyyfjdeumxueyguz... - essentially the equivalent of a custod…

He’s getting downvoted because that’s a solved problem in the wider crypto-space. To log in you sign a message using your hardware wallet. Nostr hasn’t grown up to that yet, and pointing out that pasting private keys is a bad idea is fair game. But implying that public private key cryptography can’t be used to log into web apps is just silly given that value worth billions is being moved around daily using such web a…

I am glad Zach posted here also, I think nostr devs need some reality pull from "non-crypto normies". To be clear it is (hopefully) becoming more common practice to use a nip-07 web-extension for signing (hardware or software) or other methods such as NIP-46. To be clear though, a user on nostr will HAVE to interact with cryptography in some way as every message on the network is signed.

Im working on https://github.com/VnUgE/NVault as an option for more paranoid users that want a self hosted networked approach. But there are others listed here https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/07.md

Finally, I wholly dislike the practice of offering an option of entering an nsec. Use a signing extension!

Re: Flare, a video sharing site built on Nostr

#144

Post by rglullis »

the_gastropod wrote: post #142
rglullis wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nostr makes fun of the idea that you can have centralized moderation and moves it explicitly to the relays. It is up to the relay owner to determine what is allowed or not.

Which practically means unanimous agreement is needed among all relays in order to moderate anything. I also don't see what incentive / accountability relays face to remove content. So... I don't see that strategy being particularly effective. But hey! If more than a couple dozen people wind up actually using the thing, guess we'll find out!

> Which practically means unanimous agreement is needed among all relays in order to moderate anything.

No, it means that the people will tend to congregate around the relays that work according to what they expect/want to see.

You are thinking from the assumption that things are only acceptable if total compliance is enforced. Even on the highly-controlled and regulated Internet there is still abhorrent content out there, why would you expect that from the alternative?

The interesting question is: do you think that the majority of people don't see this side of the internet because of how effective the centralized control and policing is, or just because the majority of people are not interested in seeing this content in the first place?

Re: Flare, a video sharing site built on Nostr

#145

Post by vnuge »

KomoD wrote: post #90

I don't even know how to sign up... lol there's an "nsec" field which i have no clue what it is there's a "connect with nsec" button which again, i don't know what it is. and then there's "login with extension" button which does nothing.

For you and others following. Common in early nostr apps. The web-extension spec is defined in https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/07.md. Most apps check for window.nostr, then fail silently when it's missing or blocked. There are also some popular extensions in that list.

Re: Flare, a video sharing site built on Nostr

#146

Post by rfwhyte »

Cool, you built your own YouTube with hookers and coke and... bitcoin. Lots and lots of bitcoin. Cause lord knows there's literally (checks notes) dozens of people out there clamoring for an "Anti-censorship" streaming platform where they can watch spammy bitcoin videos.

Re: Flare, a video sharing site built on Nostr

#147

Post by J_Shelby_J »

jgilias wrote: post #141
halfmatthalfcat wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a reason why social logins, magic links and SMS login codes are so ubiquitous now - end users want 0 friction getting into their accounts. This increases friction beyond what is currently common practice. No, the public doesn't want nor care about using a key to log in.

You should try logging into a “web3” app to see what I’m talking about. No need to buy crypto or anything, of course. Just for the science. A short guide, assuming a mobile device: 1. Install MetaMask, next, next, finish to create a wallet. 2. Open app.uniswap.org on your favorite browser. See if you can figure out how to ‘connect’. You can of course use the MetaMask built-in browser, but that’d be cheating.

I’ve actually seen this used for non-crypto sites. I think… it was fetlife?

If you already have MetaMask/Phantom extensions installed it’s easier than email verification.

Re: Flare, a video sharing site built on Nostr

#149

Post by belorn »

askonomm wrote: post #27
vivzkestrel wrote: post #25

decentralized anything never works at scale, this is what all the techie founders never grasp. what happens if someone uploads a child porn video or cartel beheading video on your website? because of your algorithm ll stack things by watch time it ll get to the front page in no time. What measures/controls do you have because your site explicitly says "we can't strike, shadow-ban, or demonetize you just because we di…

As evidenced by how Fediverse works (Mastodon for example); The networks actively ban bad acting networks, have very active set of moderators on each network, etc. How is this any different from centralized thing?

The major difference is that people can choose a different network if they are unhappy with the moderation from any specific network.

A channel on youtube can't just decide that they are unhappy with the moderation by youtube and replace them with an other moderation team. They can leave youtube, but then they also loose access to existing subscribers on the site.

Youtube users can also not decided they are unhappy with the moderation of youtube and whitelist videos or channels that youtube have blocked. They can leave youtube, but then the channels also need to leave or the user will loose access to videos.

The distinction between centralized power and decentralized power is how much power each actor has in the system. In a decentralized system the user control who they want to see, the content creator control who can access their content, and the network control what content the network will advertise to users. In a centralized system the network control everything, and neither the user or content creator can overrule the network.

Re: Flare, a video sharing site built on Nostr

#150

Post by acdha »

konart wrote: post #134
acdha wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but people aren’t building dependencies on them. If you’re unable to use hosting in the top countries, that’s going to complicate any attempt to build an actual business or get people to use a community project.

But the beauty here is that you don't have to run a business or host a community project. You can have a local client that connects to N relays and supports a few NIPs. And if one of the relays goes down for whatever reason - you will still be able to get updates from the others. Including information about new relays.

Yes, that’s the dream but it hasn’t worked out for most usage because few people are going to spend their time and money hosting other people’s content. If you want it to stay up or have dependable service, you almost always have to pay for hosting.
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