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Tolkien estate wins court order to destroy fan's 'Lord of the Rings' sequel

nytimes.com

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Re: Tolkien estate wins court order to destroy fan's 'Lord of the Rings' sequel

#21

Post by pavel_lishin »

> In April, Polychron sued the Tolkien estate and Amazon. He claimed that “Lord of the Rings: Rings of Power,” an Amazon Prime Video prequel series that was released last year and is one of the few adaptations authorized by the Tolkien estate, infringed on the copyright of his book. He asked for $250 million in compensation.

> Polychron said in court documents that he was inspired by Tolkien and the original “Rings” series, but he argued that he created a “wholly original book and concept” for the sequel, including “separate characters and story lines that compose as much as one-half of the 8-episode series” released by Amazon.

Has anyone both read Polychron's work, and watched the Amazon series? Is there even a shadow of truth in this allegation?

Re: Tolkien estate wins court order to destroy fan's 'Lord of the Rings' sequel

#22

Post by toss1 »

jdksmdbtbdnmsm wrote: post #6
sickofparadox wrote: post #2

I think it is unconscionable that we can use the force of the state to coerce someone to delete ALL copies of a work they created. I'm fairly anti-copyright but I get that they probably shouldn't be able to sell the books (even though the author has been in the ground for decades), fine. Give them a fine, write up a ticket, community service or whatever, but deleting everything just seems so brutish.

No aspect of copryright is morally defensible, which is why the lawmakers who created it merely defended it on the grounds of encouraging innovation in science and art.

So you are perfectly OK with laboring for years to conceive, design, and build as unique work of art, writing, or software, from which you could earn a living, and then it being OK for me to just slap my name/label on it and out-market you, taking all the gains and leaving you destitute?

Or, are you just someone who does not expect to ever create anything of value?

Re: Tolkien estate wins court order to destroy fan's 'Lord of the Rings' sequel

#23

Post by RecycledEle »

So copyright demands the destruction of creative works...

But creative works only exist because of ex-post-facto extensions to copyright after they were created, and if we do not hurry up an place Shakespeare's works under copyright for the profit of Sony, they will no ponger exist because Shakespeare has no motivation to write them.

All this is especially true outside "Science the the Useful Arts," which is where corporate profits are most Constitutionally protected in the USA.

\s

Re: Tolkien estate wins court order to destroy fan's 'Lord of the Rings' sequel

#25

Post by duskwuff »

tuscen wrote: post #7
duskwuff wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it's an extreme step, but given that the creator of the work was trying to use it to extort both the Tolkien estate and Amazon, confiscating the work to prevent further abuse is understandable. Also, the book was submitted as an exhibit in the court case, so you can read it there. It's genuinely awful. Nothing of value is being lost here. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.88...

It really should not matter. It shouldn't even be allowed to ban non-commercial fan fiction.

This wasn't non-commercial. The author was selling his book, and was trying to extort Amazon into paying licensing fees for it as well.

Re: Tolkien estate wins court order to destroy fan's 'Lord of the Rings' sequel

#26

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

junipertea wrote: post #19
zanfr wrote: post #4

leak to torrents, good luck deleted every copy then

Would you download and host an awful book out of principle?

I certainly do for certain film and tv series that have been banned or cancelled (e.g. Disney's Song of the South).

Re: Tolkien estate wins court order to destroy fan's 'Lord of the Rings' sequel

#27

Post by s1artibartfast »

jabroni_salad wrote: post #20
sickofparadox wrote: post #2

I think it is unconscionable that we can use the force of the state to coerce someone to delete ALL copies of a work they created. I'm fairly anti-copyright but I get that they probably shouldn't be able to sell the books (even though the author has been in the ground for decades), fine. Give them a fine, write up a ticket, community service or whatever, but deleting everything just seems so brutish.

This person tried to sue the estate for copyright infringement to the tune of $250M because he thinks think they lifted something out of his fanfiction for Rings of Power, as if he somehow had ownership of Tolkien's setting. This was just a countersuit because he put himself on their radar in the dumbest way possible. play stupid games win stupid prizes. There are plenty of fanfictions that go to market safely by fil…

I don't think us courts for courts should be in the business of handing out stupid prizes. Instead, they should be measured and consistent with our longstanding social agreements. Someone has to be the adult in the room and seek the moral high ground.

Re: Tolkien estate wins court order to destroy fan's 'Lord of the Rings' sequel

#28

Post by sambeau »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #21

> In April, Polychron sued the Tolkien estate and Amazon. He claimed that “Lord of the Rings: Rings of Power,” an Amazon Prime Video prequel series that was released last year and is one of the few adaptations authorized by the Tolkien estate, infringed on the copyright of his book. He asked for $250 million in compensation. > Polychron said in court documents that he was inspired by Tolkien and the original “Rings”…

The claim to separate characters is somewhat undermined by chapter 1, page 1 which features Samwise and Rosie Gamgee, and mentions Bilbo and Frodo Baggins.

Re: Tolkien estate wins court order to destroy fan's 'Lord of the Rings' sequel

#29

Post by jabroni_salad »

tuscen wrote: post #7
duskwuff wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it's an extreme step, but given that the creator of the work was trying to use it to extort both the Tolkien estate and Amazon, confiscating the work to prevent further abuse is understandable. Also, the book was submitted as an exhibit in the court case, so you can read it there. It's genuinely awful. Nothing of value is being lost here. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cacd.88...

It really should not matter. It shouldn't even be allowed to ban non-commercial fan fiction.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pG0fNw...

Re: Tolkien estate wins court order to destroy fan's 'Lord of the Rings' sequel

#30

Post by [deleted] »

duskwuff wrote: post #25
tuscen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really should not matter. It shouldn't even be allowed to ban non-commercial fan fiction.

This wasn't non-commercial. The author was selling his book, and was trying to extort Amazon into paying licensing fees for it as well.

[deleted]
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