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Rite Aid banned from using face recognition software after false ID shoplifters

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Re: Rite Aid banned from using face recognition software after false ID shoplifters

#81
post #72
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is expensive because there exist people who are willing to stand by their values?

Shitty* values but yes, try to keep up.

we can keep up with well-reasoned arguments, it's just that the words that you're typing are incoherent. i guess we can assume that you think racial profiling is ok and being against it is "shitty"?

Re: Rite Aid banned from using face recognition software after false ID shoplifters

#82
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shitty* values but yes, try to keep up.

we can keep up with well-reasoned arguments, it's just that the words that you're typing are incoherent. i guess we can assume that you think racial profiling is ok and being against it is "shitty"?

How about this: you construct a society that obsesses about race, I build a society that obsesses about property rights and we’ll see who wants to live where?

Re: Rite Aid banned from using face recognition software after false ID shoplifters

#83
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we can keep up with well-reasoned arguments, it's just that the words that you're typing are incoherent. i guess we can assume that you think racial profiling is ok and being against it is "shitty"?

How about this: you construct a society that obsesses about race, I build a society that obsesses about property rights and we’ll see who wants to live where?

yeah we already live in a society that's obsessed with both. you can clearly see that when corporations use untested "AI" that racially profile minorities as a way to "protect" their property. again, can you present some kind of coherent argument? are you trying to convince us of something, or just trying to be smug? bc i still don't understand what your point is or what you have to be smug about.

Re: Rite Aid banned from using face recognition software after false ID shoplifters

#84

I wonder who provides them this tech. A friend of mine quit a company because they were developing a VERY similar technology a few years back. He "lovingly" called it RPaaS (Racial Profiling as a Service). He went WAAAY above his pay grade to protest against the creation of the product and it ultimately ended in him sending a letter of resignation.

Report this shit to your congresscritters who care. They may not even be in your district or in your state, but there are congresscritters who care about racial profiling like this. And they'll raise a stink.

Especially if you give them juicy details and a nifty new acronym they can get headlines with.

Re: Rite Aid banned from using face recognition software after false ID shoplifters

#85
post #71
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that’s why everything is expensive

Everything is expensive because there exist people who are willing to stand by their values?

Given the context, I suppose it's because people are stealing things and thus stores have to raise their prices?

Re: Rite Aid banned from using face recognition software after false ID shoplifters

#86
post #36
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One difference is that it's hard to know if you have the chemicals in your building, or be able to eliminate them. Knowing that you have facial recognition and eliminating it is much easier.

True in theory, but is the chemical composition of a building really more complex than the software installed in a building? I feel like theres some 2nd law of supply chains that guarantees that every supply chain --physical or sofware-- will grow in complexity beyond auditability.

The software is in some hardware. The hardware can be seen and removed, and can be known when it's removed.

A chemical can't be seen, and can't be removed.

And even if the hardware is super entwined with the building, making it hard to remove, such as tied in with the HVAC system, there likely will be some toggle switch to turn off facial recognition. There's no toggle switch to remove chemicals.

Re: Rite Aid banned from using face recognition software after false ID shoplifters

#87
post #28
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One difference is that it's hard to know if you have the chemicals in your building, or be able to eliminate them. Knowing that you have facial recognition and eliminating it is much easier.

Not for any landlord that doesn’t control every business and person in the building. All it takes is UPS adding facial recognition to driver bodycams or something and suddenly your building has facial recognition in it. Better to just put the warning everywhere and forget about it.

Is it the landlord's job to prevent a tenant from using facial recognition in the tenant's area of the building? I think the tenant is in charge of putting up the disclaimer if the tenant does that.

As for facial recognition in common areas, the landlord can put a clause in the lease agreement requiring tenants not to do that.

If disclaimers are required for facial recognition and a UPS driver has a facial recognition bodycam, I assume it'll be the UPS driver that needs the disclaimer, not every place the UPS driver visits.

Re: Rite Aid banned from using face recognition software after false ID shoplifters

#88
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One difference is that it's hard to know if you have the chemicals in your building, or be able to eliminate them. Knowing that you have facial recognition and eliminating it is much easier.

Eliminating it by a customer is a rather tough sell.

Eliminating either by the customer is very difficult. You can try boycotting or contacting the owner to complain. Even then, removing the chemicals is even more difficult, because even if your boycott gets the attention of the owner, the owner will have a harder time removing the chemicals than removing the facial recognition.

Re: Rite Aid banned from using face recognition software after false ID shoplifters

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is how correlated are human and machine errors. I would guess fairly strongly, in which case human review would add little additional accuracy.

> I would guess fairly strongly No, evidence suggests they are not. We're all very aware of the horror stories of AI misidentifying species . Different AI systems are different, but in general AI seems to make quite different classes of mistakes from humans. Our brains work very differently from current statistical models. So human review absolutely adds accuracy, you can generally assume. And it adds human-accountab…

Ultimately it's an empirical question, and unless someone has published the research, you and I will not be able to know for sure. I think there will be a lot of cases where two people simply look a lot alike, and any observer would have difficulty distinguishing them.

Re: Rite Aid banned from using face recognition software after false ID shoplifters

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .. then they themselves can judge if they feel confident the shopper is actually the same person Yes - but the "approach and identify" of false positives/innocent people was the actual embarrassment and harassment that the system got banned for, it was the human review (asking for ID etc) that was the issue.

But it seems like they went straight to approaching and asking for ID. What about the step where it shows a human photos from original footage and current footage and they get to say, nope I'm not confident? Again, not defending Rite-Aid here, just pointing out that facial recognition needs a human verification layer before taking any action at all. The fact they weren't doing that is just one part of why their actio…

What incentive is there to say "I'm not confident"? If someone is particularly bad at comparing faces in pictures and they let multiple shoplifters through they're likely going to lose their jobs.
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