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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#401

Post by akouri »

ska wrote: post #392
akouri wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tap & Pay with a ccard still requires you to fiddle with a station and slows you down. If you are plugging in at home (which is our target market), the fewer interactions needed the better. Imagine every time you get home you need to take your wallet out, tap the machine, wait for some 3rd party api to talk to the charger in the dimly lit basement, and then and only then you can leave. This is like 30 seconds of your…

That makes sense that the use case in a shared home lot is different than out and about, but still doesn't obviously suggest payment routing over the charger - wouldn't monthly billing be better from the consumers point of view? You'd only need a car identifier for that.

Yes, to your point the Plug & Charge mechanism is just for authentication. Through our integrations with Yardi, Buildium, etc. payment can just be taken out of rent or tacked onto the sub-metered utility bill.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#402

Post by [deleted] »

solatic wrote: post #238
why_at wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why you feel plug-and-charge is so important? I have used chargers with and without it and while it is slightly more convenient to just plug in and go, it doesn't feel like such a huge improvement that I absolutely need it. I agree that having a different app for every brand of charging station would be annoying, but what about just accepting a credit card the way we do with gas stations now?

Recharging electric vehicles is not like refilling gas-powered cars. You will intentionally drive a gas vehicle down to 20%, even 10% tank left before going out of your way to a gas station, maybe once a week on average. But with electric cars, you should intentionally be plugging in to recharge as frequently as possible, at least once a day, as you are penalized (with longer recharge times) the longer you go between…

[deleted]

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#403

Post by akouri »

namdnay wrote: post #385
enragedcacti wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For apartments I think it makes a lot of sense. Having to do a couple transactions every road trip is one thing, but having to complete a transaction just to top off every night the way a homeowner would sounds really annoying.

For apartments it would make more sense to have it read the same key fob you use to open the gates or whatever. Then just add it on your monthly building bill

Not a bad idea. We are looking into this. One issue is that the vendors for these keyfobs are super fragmented -- even more so than Plug & Charge adoption.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#404

Post by _ea1k »

dylan604 wrote: post #320
_ea1k wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair point. TBH, a combination of GPS (or just smart defaulting) and entering a short code would work pretty easily as well. They could also put the QR on a small screen to make it harder to fake. A little epaper display wouldn't add much to the cost.

also, who plugs in daily? do you fuel your ICE car daily? other than professional drivers, i'm doubting this is the normal routine for normal drivers. the irrational idea that EVs need to be plugged in at any and every opportunity is something that should be rationalized away. i don't own an EV, so maybe my preconceived ideas of only charging when necessary may be what needs updating??? however, regular battery maint…

I'd guess that most EV owners with home charging do plug in daily, but also limit charge based on the type of pack. For most of us, that means ~80% as a daily limit, if not less.

In practice, I don't think EV owners are seeing a meaningful difference between repeatedly doing charges from 70 to 80% vs periodically doing bigger charges (eg, 20-80%).

So why not have a full-enough pack every morning? It is one of the big conveniences of an EV. Obviously this will be different if they don't have home charging or have a less than convenient setup.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#405

Post by ska »

akouri wrote: post #360
why_at wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I agree having a different app for each station sucks, but I don't really understand how plug-and-charge would solve this. For anything that does support plug-and-charge, don't you still need to register the payment method somewhere in advance? Unless we have some universal payment processor which all the charging networks agree to use I will still need register through an app or something when I encounter a new…

Tap & Pay still requires you to fiddle with a station and slows you down. If you are plugging in at home (which is our target market), the fewer interactions needed the better. Imagine every time you get home you need to take your wallet out, tap the machine, wait for some 3rd party api to talk to the charger in the dimly lit basement, and then and only then you can leave. This is like 30 seconds of your day wasted.…

There are transit systems that have made this work smoothly, you just walk up to a gate, tap your card as you walk through, so I can't imagine the barrier is technological unachievable. Seems like similar frequency and $.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#406

Post by joshl32532 »

conjecTech wrote: post #159
InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

People also made the argument that the exclusivity of the Tesla supercharger network was a positive for Tesla. It's hard for both to be true. I think the reality is that uncertainty about charging away from home pushed a lot of people towards Tesla who might otherwise have considered a different make/model. With that gone, a moat vanished. That being said, competition in the US EV market is still weak. Maybe the adde…

Yeah, I was holding out on buying Ionic5 because of the lack of good charging network, even though I will only use it for occasional roadtrip. I will be charging at home for everyday use.

Now that everybody is in Tesla supercharger, Teslas are losing its appeal to me now.

I just need to wait until 2025 when everybody actually uses NACS. lol.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#407

Post by VBprogrammer »

Animats wrote: post #376
afavour wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO that would be better solved by mandating tap and pay payment at EV charging spots. Integrating payments into the charging standard feels like a wild overcomplication by comparison.

The tap-and-pay RF people need to get their act together. The average number of tries needed to get a good read is > 1. For Veriphone units, > 2. Please make it clear where, exactly, the near-field antenna is. Behind the screen? Behind the logo that looks like WiFi? Somewhere inside a separate hockey-puck device? And indicate when the reader is active, too. Light up something. One place I visit regularly had a POS sy…

For what it's worth, contactless is ubiquitous in the UK – the experience is almost always seamless. The only exception being the odd reader with the antenna in a stupid place (these have gotten less common over time) or when your bank decides to force a pin check.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#408

Post by staplers »

ska wrote: post #390
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no way to communicate when you are charged up that way, maybe via an SMS that you add with your phone number. Also, you have to communicate your charging preference somehow. It’s not like pumping gas, you rarely want it to stop at 100%, although the charging standard might at least be able to control that from the car.

> There is no way to communicate when you are charged up that way Cant' the car do it?

Or ya know.. the pump, like has existed for decades..

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#409

Post by rekoil »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #347
keep_reading wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CCS2 is terrible, I'd hate to be forced to use that giant bulky connector and cable. The EU got it wrong. Design by committee always sucks.

It is a horrible, heavy connector.

It's big, but it really doesn't matter in practice. Yes, J1772 looks nicer and is easier to handle, but it can't pump as much wattage as CCS2, and in the end that's watt (:P) matters.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#410

Post by rekoil »

vel0city wrote: post #313
sebazzz wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The electricity grid has three phases in the US right? Are devices seldom connected to three phases?

Three phase power is out there but you never see it in residential and rarely in commercial. It's pretty much just an industrial kind of thing.

I have two 3-phase 480V 16A sockets in my 50m2 European apartment.
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