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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#241
post #195

I am the founder of Starlight Charging[1]. We are working on crazy-low-cost L2 chargers for multifamily apartments. Plug-and-charge is a sine-qua-non for us. One still major unsolved problem is the lack of agreement on a standard for payment/powerline communication from the EVSE to the vehicle. OCPP 2.0.1 and ISO 15118 is supposed to bring "Plug and Charge" capabilities -- this, in theory, would allow drivers to simp…

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cable weight corresponds to charging power rating and choice of materials, not plug choice. A combined CCS2 plug is chunkier and might be a bit heavier, but not compared to, say, using a fuel pump.

Just go try them both. CCS2 Has separate AC and DC conductors, and the plug is huge owing to having 2 pair of charging pins and backward compatibility. They are more awkward and heavier than a fuel pump, and significantly heavier than the Tesla plugs. It's terrible.

NACS is fundamentally incompatible for 3-phase power. You need a live, a neutral, a ground, and two extra wires for each extra phase.

I’ll take my chunky connector with 22kW over your sleek one with 7kW :)

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#243
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why you feel plug-and-charge is so important? I have used chargers with and without it and while it is slightly more convenient to just plug in and go, it doesn't feel like such a huge improvement that I absolutely need it. I agree that having a different app for every brand of charging station would be annoying, but what about just accepting a credit card the way we do with gas stations now?

For apartments I think it makes a lot of sense. Having to do a couple transactions every road trip is one thing, but having to complete a transaction just to top off every night the way a homeowner would sounds really annoying.

The flip side to that is that you'd only have to setup the app once at your home. If the charging activation is as smooth as chargepoint, it wouldn't be bad at all.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#244
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why you feel plug-and-charge is so important? I have used chargers with and without it and while it is slightly more convenient to just plug in and go, it doesn't feel like such a huge improvement that I absolutely need it. I agree that having a different app for every brand of charging station would be annoying, but what about just accepting a credit card the way we do with gas stations now?

Have you done any road tripping in an EV? my experience of the app-based charging landscape has been complete horror; apps don’t work, chargers don’t start, payments don’t through.. Just last month was a new app at McDonalds in Sweden, that one asks me to, in the freezing cold, scan a dirty QR code sticker, which takes me to a website I’ve never heard of that wants me to manually enter credit card info, like a phishi…

I have done multiple 10+ hour (although no multi day) road trips in an ev. It was fine. I had problems exactly one time and i was able to just go to a different charger a mile away.

All of the chargers I've used had apps, but they also allowed using a credit card, which seems like it would have solved your problem just as well. And that's already a solved problem, even if not every charging network uses it.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#245
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain why you feel plug-and-charge is so important? I have used chargers with and without it and while it is slightly more convenient to just plug in and go, it doesn't feel like such a huge improvement that I absolutely need it. I agree that having a different app for every brand of charging station would be annoying, but what about just accepting a credit card the way we do with gas stations now?

Have you done any road tripping in an EV? my experience of the app-based charging landscape has been complete horror; apps don’t work, chargers don’t start, payments don’t through.. Just last month was a new app at McDonalds in Sweden, that one asks me to, in the freezing cold, scan a dirty QR code sticker, which takes me to a website I’ve never heard of that wants me to manually enter credit card info, like a phishi…

Some chargers have tap&pay on the machine like a gas pump. No app needed.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#246
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People also made the argument that the exclusivity of the Tesla supercharger network was a positive for Tesla. It's hard for both to be true. I think the reality is that uncertainty about charging away from home pushed a lot of people towards Tesla who might otherwise have considered a different make/model. With that gone, a moat vanished. That being said, competition in the US EV market is still weak. Maybe the adde…

Times change and companies need to adapt with the times. 2015-2022, exclusivity would be a huge positive for Tesla. Their vehicles would have lots of charging stations while other vehicles wouldn't. That's great for Tesla. When the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure plan, it became clear that CCS would become the dominant charging standard in the US - unless Tesla acted fast. Tesla's port would go from an advan…

Agreed, I think its much fairer to say they snatched a stalemate out of the jaws of defeat rather than just "this is good for Tesla".

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it also takes away Tesla's biggest advantage, no? The charging network was a big reason to buy a tesla and now that's gone. So perhaps they will actually end up losing more revenue than gaining.

Tesla was always going to lose the EV battle in the long run - if not to VW and co, then to BYD and co. This lets them pivot to something where they have a huge moat.

They have less a moat here. Anyone can buy a level 3 charger and install it. while the economics of that are not clear, they are becoming clearer as EVs catch on. Many gas stations are looking at if chargers make sense long term, and if it does they will also install chargers.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#248
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NACS standard still only supports single phase power. It was the electrician who installed my home charger that said it is why they weren't in Europe homes.

NACS supports either one or two phases for AC charging which would be used in most home chargers. A really high power charger would use DC with the AC/DC conversion happening before (and that could be from a three-phase source)

What the US has is split phase power, when one phase is 240V and that is split to make two 120V legs. NACS supports single phase power, either 120V (Level 1) or 240V (Level 2).

There is no such thing as two-phase power, there is single-phase or three-phase. Since three-phase is better than two-phase.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you done any road tripping in an EV? my experience of the app-based charging landscape has been complete horror; apps don’t work, chargers don’t start, payments don’t through.. Just last month was a new app at McDonalds in Sweden, that one asks me to, in the freezing cold, scan a dirty QR code sticker, which takes me to a website I’ve never heard of that wants me to manually enter credit card info, like a phishi…

I have done multiple 10+ hour (although no multi day) road trips in an ev. It was fine. I had problems exactly one time and i was able to just go to a different charger a mile away. All of the chargers I've used had apps, but they also allowed using a credit card, which seems like it would have solved your problem just as well. And that's already a solved problem, even if not every charging network uses it.

Now go abroad where charging app is not available in your country or requires local phone number to register, uses local language, or even wants local address or local payment method.

Just give me website god damn it.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#250
While this sounds good, why are we so focused on charging stations? It seems to me, it would make much more sense to have a series of batteries that can quickly be removed, and have battery exchanges.

Then, if you need a charge, you pull over to a battery exchange, swap out batteries in a few seconds, and go on your way.

I have seen this in China with electric scooters, and it seems like it could scale well for cars too.

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