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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#221

Post by shiftpgdn »

sib wrote: post #141
InTheArena wrote: post #57

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

Not sure how much margin that Tesla will be making on the charging. I don't think the financial details of these deals have been disclosed. Adding lots of revenue but with no margin doesn't really add value to Tesla. (Of course, to the extent they get funding from the government or other manufacturers to offset the capex required for building out more stations and chargers, that's great for Tesla & anyone.)

In states where they are registered as an energy provider? A lot. A 10-80% charge will net Tesla $20. Comparatively a gas station that refills a midsize car with a 20 gallon tank will only net $6.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#222

Post by bluGill »

Gasp0de wrote: post #132
bluGill wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While sometimes you get more power on 3 phase, that is only about the size of the feed and nothing to do with 3 phase.

With three phases in Europe you get 400v, which means less amps for the same power, which means lower losses or thinner cables?

You can get 400V 3 phase in the US. While houses don't, almost all commercial locations have it already. So most public chargers in the US have 3 phase available. charge at home doesn't, but those tend to be lower power charge all night vs the charge in half and hour commercial chargers.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#223

Post by bluGill »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #128
bluGill wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While sometimes you get more power on 3 phase, that is only about the size of the feed and nothing to do with 3 phase.

But you have three feeds giving you three phases to use, so 3x the power available to you. Out here, even electric stoves (with ovens) have 3 phase connection options and tankless water heaters almost exclusively come as 3 phase models.

Power is volts times amps. 3 phase just means you add the power of all three phases, but you can get the same power from one phase with a little algebra. You need different size wires and breakers, but there is nothing there that 3 phases gives you.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#224

Post by why_at »

akouri wrote: post #195

I am the founder of Starlight Charging[1]. We are working on crazy-low-cost L2 chargers for multifamily apartments. Plug-and-charge is a sine-qua-non for us. One still major unsolved problem is the lack of agreement on a standard for payment/powerline communication from the EVSE to the vehicle. OCPP 2.0.1 and ISO 15118 is supposed to bring "Plug and Charge" capabilities -- this, in theory, would allow drivers to simp…

Can you explain why you feel plug-and-charge is so important? I have used chargers with and without it and while it is slightly more convenient to just plug in and go, it doesn't feel like such a huge improvement that I absolutely need it.

I agree that having a different app for every brand of charging station would be annoying, but what about just accepting a credit card the way we do with gas stations now?

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#225

Post by bluGill »

newsclues wrote: post #175
bluGill wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Auto makers are used to making their own platforms, and they won't change. Making a platform is not the hard part, and there are advantages to a custom platform for each vehicle.

Auto makers are used to integrating technology from other companies like Bosch.

But not their platforms. Automakers generally make their own platforms (though they will rebadge someone else's too), engines (again they share with each other, but most have their own), and transmissions. Everything else is outsourced to companies like Bosch.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#226

Post by conjecTech »

shiftpgdn wrote: post #221
sib wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how much margin that Tesla will be making on the charging. I don't think the financial details of these deals have been disclosed. Adding lots of revenue but with no margin doesn't really add value to Tesla. (Of course, to the extent they get funding from the government or other manufacturers to offset the capex required for building out more stations and chargers, that's great for Tesla & anyone.)

In states where they are registered as an energy provider? A lot. A 10-80% charge will net Tesla $20. Comparatively a gas station that refills a midsize car with a 20 gallon tank will only net $6.

And where is that?

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#227

Post by mupuff1234 »

agloe_dreams wrote: post #101
mupuff1234 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it also takes away Tesla's biggest advantage, no? The charging network was a big reason to buy a tesla and now that's gone. So perhaps they will actually end up losing more revenue than gaining.

Yes and no. Tesla already has the #1 selling car (Model Y) and makes up more than half of EVs sold in the US. Eventually other networks were going to catch up. Now the other half will pay them too but they own the network. Long term it was the right choice.

But like you said, other networks will eventually catch up so long term tesla won't control the network either.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#228

Post by dybber »

akouri wrote: post #195

I am the founder of Starlight Charging[1]. We are working on crazy-low-cost L2 chargers for multifamily apartments. Plug-and-charge is a sine-qua-non for us. One still major unsolved problem is the lack of agreement on a standard for payment/powerline communication from the EVSE to the vehicle. OCPP 2.0.1 and ISO 15118 is supposed to bring "Plug and Charge" capabilities -- this, in theory, would allow drivers to simp…

That’s where governmental regulation should kick in and require compatibility, so you aren’t forced to change charger because you either change car or power company. I expect EU to get there at some point.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#229

Post by bluGill »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #214
aik wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Thank you Tesla for helping bring about a better standard here!

> Thank you Tesla for helping bring about a better standard here! You should probably thank the government, too. When the feds decided they were going to put billions in subsidies to a national charging network, the original regulations basically required CCS, because that was really the only cross-platform game in town - Tesla was proprietary and not open to other automakers. In a brilliant bit of chutzpah, in respo…

A large number of standards are what one company did on their own and then made available to everybody via the likes of ANSI/ECMA/ISO. There are a number of reasons a company would want to do this.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#230

Post by stetrain »

conjecTech wrote: post #218
josephcsible wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The price of charging is already dominated by the marginal cost of electricity No it isn't. Most level 3 chargers are 3x-4x the price of electricity.

PG&E commercial energy rates in California are $0.36/kwh including delivery[1]. Tesla charges about $0.50/kwh[2]. [1] https://www.pge.com/tariffs/electric.shtml [2] https://electrek.co/2022/09/28/tesla-hikes-supercharger-pric...

Up to around $0.70 now at peak times:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/17bls7u/woke_u...

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