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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#211

Post by omnimus »

paul7986 wrote: post #205
njovin wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the EV. A few years back I did a ~400 mile road trip in a Model Y. We had to make one top-up charging stop which took about 15 minutes. We walked to a spot and got a snack while we waited. A similarly-sized ICE vehicle could have possibly done the trip without a stop, or required a quick 5-minute top-up depending on conditions. I've done lots of long road trips in ICE vehicles and we usually stop to walk a…

I travel a lot in my SUV in remote areas like between Reno and Vegas. As a gas driver I like the fact there's a gas station in remote areas and it takes me three minutes to fill my tank and go. When do we think as interested EV driver will my driving experience match my gas car diving experience and needs? Are we there yet?

Maybe in future with different approach like https://youtube.com/watch?v=VmWL1hZQmD0

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#212

Post by chrisjc »

blabla1224 wrote: post #13

I won’t be surprised if Tesla becomes a platform for other automakers like android from Google in the future

It definitely seems like Tesla is slowly seeping into the world of other car manufactures in an ongoing manner. And I don't think they/we have given much thought to what's yet to come. Batteries, auto-pilot, training/inference, manufacturing/robotics, and so on...

Do any of really think, especially given the track record, that most of the auto-industry is going to be able to do any of this alone? I imagine that eventually it will come down to a choice between partnering with a bunch of disparate tech/manufacturing companies or Tesla.

We all know there is disruption to come in general, but it's going to hit the incumbent auto-manufacturers like a brick if they don't wake up soon.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#213

Post by alephnerd »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #206
alephnerd wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better maintained than the horror show that is Electrify America as well

I've posted about this before, but the reason EA is such a horror show is due to their history. EA was created basically as government-mandated punishment against Volkswagen for dieselgate. So it's not that surprising that they didn't feel incentivized to deliver a great product. Compare that to the Supercharger network, where providing a great experience is a huge selling point for Teslas. I might despise Musk, and…

> EA was created basically as government-mandated punishment against Volkswagen

I didn't know that. Do you have some documentation about that. Would be fun reading material for the holidays

> I might despise Musk, and I'm not a fan of Tesla lately, but you do really have to hand it to them: they were prescient and put in all the hard work of building out the best fast charging network, so good for them for reaping the benefits.

Same boat club.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#214

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

aik wrote: post #127
phkahler wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. The real win here is for the public. The "standard" charging plug and cables weigh a LOT, so much that my elderly mother probably couldn't use one. The "standard" also mandates the use of PowerLine Communication chips even though the signal is not over the high power conductor. We are all better off just biting the bullet now and changing everything over to the Tesla plug.

Agreed. Thank you Tesla for helping bring about a better standard here!

> Thank you Tesla for helping bring about a better standard here!

You should probably thank the government, too. When the feds decided they were going to put billions in subsidies to a national charging network, the original regulations basically required CCS, because that was really the only cross-platform game in town - Tesla was proprietary and not open to other automakers. In a brilliant bit of chutzpah, in response Tesla renamed their charging system the "North American Charging Standard" and started coaxing other auto companies to get on board, which most other companies were OK with because Tesla has by far the best fast charging network. But it was really the government subsidies, and the threat that Tesla would be left behind if everyone else went with CCS, that sparked the opening up of NACS in the first place.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#215

Post by paul7986 »

omnimus wrote: post #211
paul7986 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I travel a lot in my SUV in remote areas like between Reno and Vegas. As a gas driver I like the fact there's a gas station in remote areas and it takes me three minutes to fill my tank and go. When do we think as interested EV driver will my driving experience match my gas car diving experience and needs? Are we there yet?

Maybe in future with different approach like https://youtube.com/watch?v=VmWL1hZQmD0

Oh just maybe (yikes) ..I'm on the fence about buying an EV as gas car provides me the best experience for my needs. I drive a Ton and in remote areas too

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#216

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

alephnerd wrote: post #213
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've posted about this before, but the reason EA is such a horror show is due to their history. EA was created basically as government-mandated punishment against Volkswagen for dieselgate. So it's not that surprising that they didn't feel incentivized to deliver a great product. Compare that to the Supercharger network, where providing a great experience is a huge selling point for Teslas. I might despise Musk, and…

> EA was created basically as government-mandated punishment against Volkswagen I didn't know that. Do you have some documentation about that. Would be fun reading material for the holidays > I might despise Musk, and I'm not a fan of Tesla lately, but you do really have to hand it to them: they were prescient and put in all the hard work of building out the best fast charging network, so good for them for reaping th…

The Wikipedia pages for EA and the VW emissions scandal give a good overview with linked sources. As part of the consent decree, VW had to put $2 billion into EA.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#217

Post by Symbiote »

keep_reading wrote: post #204
apexalpha wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was designed by VW I think, who handed it over to other car companies so there could be a universal connector. The reason it's bigger is because it supports 3-phase power, which NACS does not. 3-phase power is a big thing in Europe.

This is very true about 3 phase, but I have heard that there is interest in it being used in EU for AC charging in public garages because it can handle anything up to 277 volts vs J1772 which can only do 208/240. So they can give it 1 of the 3 phases @ 220V and it will work unlike J1772. Allegedly. But I kind of doubt it will go anywhere when they've been forcing CCS2 on everyone.

The CCS2 AC-only connector (the one for normal charging at home, destination charging and so on) already supports 3-phase with up to 480V phase-to-phase, up to 22kW. It's larger than the NACS connector — there are two additional large pins — but not unwieldy.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#218

Post by conjecTech »

josephcsible wrote: post #198
conjecTech wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price of charging is already dominated by the marginal cost of electricity, in the same way the price of filling your gas tank is by the price of gas. That will only be more true as charging gets faster. So an advantage in fixed costs is unlikely to be much of a strategic benefit. If they can save 100k/stall, that's great. But that is only a few hundred million a year at that install rate.

> The price of charging is already dominated by the marginal cost of electricity No it isn't. Most level 3 chargers are 3x-4x the price of electricity.

PG&E commercial energy rates in California are $0.36/kwh including delivery[1]. Tesla charges about $0.50/kwh[2].

[1] https://www.pge.com/tariffs/electric.shtml [2] https://electrek.co/2022/09/28/tesla-hikes-supercharger-pric...

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#219

Post by bluGill »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #133
bluGill wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no reason other countries couldn't do that. Many are too poor, but they could get rich (how is an open question) and do it.

> no reason other countries couldn't do that Yes, there are. A simple example is Latin America. Americans are willing to risk a recession, which predominantly falls on the poor, to stave off inflation. We’re slow to regulate and quick to let immigrate (even if we sing a song and dance about it, constantly) in a way most polities won’t tolerate. These come at costs that aren’t bearable for many, including in America.…

That is why they won't do it, not why they can't.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#220

Post by Symbiote »

justapassenger wrote: post #179
Rebelgecko wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, I think if NA had forced a standard quickly (which the US has actually sort of done with the infrastructure bill), it would've been CCS which has a lot of downsides

Any downside other than bigger plug? And plug is bigger partially because it needs to support 3 phases, which isn’t a thing in USA houses (while common across the whole world) but is a thing at industrial locations. Tesla plug doesn’t work with 3 phases.

CCS1 used in North America is only single phase.

CCS2 used in Europe (and elsewhere) supports three phase.

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