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Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

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Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#201
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which countries have landed men on the moon using garbage standards? Which countries have landed men on the moon using your preferred standards?

I don't know if US Space Programs is the end-all be-all argument you think it is, looking at Orion and SLS.

As opposed to which other wildly successful space programs? Ariane? Lol. I'm not American but yes us space programs are absolutely way ahead and have been so since Apollo. They are also pretty good arguments whenever someone tries to argue that the US is backwards technologically because of... measurement units lol. Not sure why it's even worth denying that. There is tons of stuff to criticize the US for, or where the US is behind but space programs are probably not one of them lol.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#202

I think people are missing the big story here. This is Tesla winning the charging network battle (it wasn't close before this). Any EV car (which will eventually be all cars) will immediately be available for Tesla's supercharger network. This gives Tesla a massive revenue stream and scale to grow that network even bigger. Anyone who wants their superchargers has to also support all Teslas.

People also made the argument that the exclusivity of the Tesla supercharger network was a positive for Tesla. It's hard for both to be true. I think the reality is that uncertainty about charging away from home pushed a lot of people towards Tesla who might otherwise have considered a different make/model. With that gone, a moat vanished. That being said, competition in the US EV market is still weak. Maybe the adde…

Times change and companies need to adapt with the times. 2015-2022, exclusivity would be a huge positive for Tesla. Their vehicles would have lots of charging stations while other vehicles wouldn't. That's great for Tesla.

When the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure plan, it became clear that CCS would become the dominant charging standard in the US - unless Tesla acted fast. Tesla's port would go from an advantage to a disadvantage. Tesla has 12,000 US chargers today. Maybe the company would make that 25,000 by 2030. The NEVI pushes for 500,000 chargers by 2030 with the CCS port. Toward the end of the 2020s, Tesla would feel pressure to switch to CCS because the majority of chargers in the US would be CCS. Tesla owners would complain that their Tesla vehicles used a different port from 95% of the public chargers.

By pushing the industry to adopt the Tesla charger, they ensure that chargers built using the NEVI money will most likely have Tesla ports. They could even argue that the administration should drop the CCS requirement given that the industry has moved to the Tesla port.

Tesla's port would have gone from an advantage to a hinderance. If Tesla didn't move the industry to the Tesla port, they'd eventually have to move to CCS. People would want their cars to be compatible with 95% of the chargers out there. When Tesla announced a switch to CCS, sales of current vehicles would likely crater. With Tesla abandoning their port, people would want to wait for the new model. Tesla might need to offer steep discounts to get people to take the "old" port. Instead, by moving the industry to their port, they put the uncertainty on competing vehicles; they make potential punchers of competing vehicles more likely to buy a Tesla or delay their competing purchase. That either adds to Tesla sales or makes competing companies question their EV commitment.

It's not that Tesla wanted to give up their moat. It's not that Tesla wants a bit of charging revenue. It's that if 95% of the chargers in the US become CCS, that moat is trapping Tesla in rather than keeping competitors out. Yes, having Supercharger exclusivity would still be an advantage for a few more years - and it will still be given that it'll be a couple years before competitors have Tesla's port on their vehicles. However, Tesla doesn't want the situation where their port becomes the odd one out where Tesla owners need to fumble with CCS adaptors. Maybe Tesla gives up a year or two of Supercharger advantage, but they ensure that it doesn't become a disadvantage.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any country can land on the moon after spending the same amount of money and effort as the US; intelligence and talent are abundant, existing in every nation and human being.

I guess the question is how to get the means to spend such efforts, and how Europe didn't

They tried to build a domestic program with Arianespace, but the cost for the engineering is too competitive. New space entrants like SpaceX and soon to be Blue Origin make it economically infeasible for all but the most sensitive EU NATSEC missions to be handled by US providers.

It’s a shame to see honestly.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CCS2 is terrible, I'd hate to be forced to use that giant bulky connector and cable. The EU got it wrong. Design by committee always sucks.

It was designed by VW I think, who handed it over to other car companies so there could be a universal connector. The reason it's bigger is because it supports 3-phase power, which NACS does not. 3-phase power is a big thing in Europe.

This is very true about 3 phase, but I have heard that there is interest in it being used in EU for AC charging in public garages because it can handle anything up to 277 volts vs J1772 which can only do 208/240. So they can give it 1 of the 3 phases @ 220V and it will work unlike J1772. Allegedly.

But I kind of doubt it will go anywhere when they've been forcing CCS2 on everyone.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#205
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does it take to charge if my EV battery is at about zero with a supercharger? The same time it takes to pump gas?

Depends on the EV. A few years back I did a ~400 mile road trip in a Model Y. We had to make one top-up charging stop which took about 15 minutes. We walked to a spot and got a snack while we waited. A similarly-sized ICE vehicle could have possibly done the trip without a stop, or required a quick 5-minute top-up depending on conditions. I've done lots of long road trips in ICE vehicles and we usually stop to walk a…

I travel a lot in my SUV in remote areas like between Reno and Vegas.

As a gas driver I like the fact there's a gas station in remote areas and it takes me three minutes to fill my tank and go.

When do we think as interested EV driver will my driving experience match my gas car diving experience and needs? Are we there yet?

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#206
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Thank you Tesla for helping bring about a better standard here!

Better maintained than the horror show that is Electrify America as well

I've posted about this before, but the reason EA is such a horror show is due to their history. EA was created basically as government-mandated punishment against Volkswagen for dieselgate. So it's not that surprising that they didn't feel incentivized to deliver a great product.

Compare that to the Supercharger network, where providing a great experience is a huge selling point for Teslas.

I might despise Musk, and I'm not a fan of Tesla lately, but you do really have to hand it to them: they were prescient and put in all the hard work of building out the best fast charging network, so good for them for reaping the benefits.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does it take to charge if my EV battery is at about zero with a supercharger? The same time it takes to pump gas?

we took a road trip last summer about 4000 miles in our model Y Long range. You end up supercharging approximately every three hours for about 15 minutes. it actually worked out very well because our first stop of the day was almost always lunch. we picked hotels that had chargers on site so we started each day with enough charge to make the next supercharger.

Were you traveling in remote areas something like between Reno and Vegas or other similar long remote stretches?

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cable weight corresponds to charging power rating and choice of materials, not plug choice. A combined CCS2 plug is chunkier and might be a bit heavier, but not compared to, say, using a fuel pump.

Just go try them both. CCS2 Has separate AC and DC conductors, and the plug is huge owing to having 2 pair of charging pins and backward compatibility. They are more awkward and heavier than a fuel pump, and significantly heavier than the Tesla plugs. It's terrible.

> They are more awkward and heavier than a fuel pump

Really? I don't doubt that Tesla's plugs are smaller and lighter, but it always seemed a bit caricature-ist about people saying how horrible the CCS plugs are and that they weigh like a million pounds or something. They certainly never seemed heavier or harder to manipulate to me compared to a gas pump, so I just never understood this complaint.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#209
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which countries have landed men on the moon using garbage standards? Which countries have landed men on the moon using your preferred standards?

I don't know if US Space Programs is the end-all be-all argument you think it is, looking at Orion and SLS.

The irony here is that even the not so great American space programs, like the two you mentioned, are still leagues ahead of most of the rest of world’s space programs. Also, the SLS launch that’s happened was flawless. Sure the thing is expensive, but how is it a failure?

Orion and SLS will medium to long term likely both be replaced by Starship / Superheavy.

The only non-American super impressive space program that I’ve seen is actually India’s ISRO. Their cost for traditional rockets price per kg to orbit is quite impressive, though Spacex dominates everyone on price due to reusability.

Re: Volkswagen, Porsche, and Audi say they will use Tesla's EV charging plug

#210
post #5

Logical move. North American Charging Standard does not exist in Europe making car re-import much more difficult.

Adapters cost a few hundred dollars. That's not much compared to the cost of shipping a car across an ocean.
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