Maybe I'm just not the audience for Meteor, because while it looks like a great project but as a nodejs guy, the fact that it hides itself away from the platform and turned away from the fantastic npm makes me sort of weary about it as a whole. But I imagine people coming from rails or whatever don't find this a problem at all.
Meteor is now MIT licensed
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Re: Meteor is now MIT licensed
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that's demonstrably false given how good development tools actually are, particularly open source ones. If anything, too much work goes into open source development tools--certainly much more than in any other category! Just look at how much is accomplished--and how is easily--by various start-ups using open source technology. There are great web servers, web frameworks, libraries, programming languages, text…
I think that's demonstrably false given how good development tools actually are, particularly open source ones I'm curious about your specific frame of reference. Which tools do you have in mind? Have you also used Visual Studio, C#, and Linq as a point of comparison? (I have not, but they are mentioned favorably in these comments.) A lot of people might cite Eclipse as a good development tool. The Java GUI library u…
I have used Visual Studio (mostly for C++ but a tiny bit of C# for WPF stuff), but not too much. I've found myself significantly more productive with Emacs, but I've also now used Emacs quite a bit more. I also used a full version of Intellij in my summer job, but was thoroughly unimpressed.
Now, I'll grant that the tools I've listed tend to have harsh learning curves. However, I posit that they are exceptionally effective in experienced hands. I think this is not a drawback: learning a tool is a constant expense where being more efficient is a benefit proportional to how much you use that tool. I would rather have tools that are harder to learn but more efficient than the opposite. Now, it is true that a tool that is easy to learn does not have to be less efficient and a tool that's harder to learn does not have to be more efficient, but I have found the two to be correlated in practice.
While the user-facing FOSS projects may be less polished in general, I have found that this does not hold nearly as much for developer tools. The main problem with letting developers design UIs is that they assume that everybody thinks like them; this isn't an entirely unfair assumption when writing tools for fellow developers! As I have mentioned, while FOSS developer tool UIs may be harder to learn, I have found them superior overall. Emacs is a perfect example--it does not follow any conventions of other common software (it pre-dates all that other software, after all) but within itself it is by far the most consistent UI I have ever encountered. In fact, I think Emacs is a great picture of brilliant UX; the sole problem is that it lives in its own universe (and isn't as slick or shiny as some newer options).
And of course, with the right lisp incantation, you can do magic.
Finally, it is true that the majority of FOSS projects become stagnant. Then again, this is doubtless true of the majority of non-FOSS projects as well. Back in my Windows days, I would frequently encounter "shareware" that had fallen into disrepair. The main difference is that an abandoned FOSS project can easily be patched or even brought back to life (JS-2 mode is a perfect example of this); abandoned proprietary software is basically dead.
Now, clearly, proprietary programs like Visual Studio supported by large companies will not die. But that is true of big open source projects as well: most of the ones I listed aren't disappearing any time soon. So stagnation is really constant across all software; the difference is that FOSS software is much more difficult to kill completely.
Hopefully my aimless ramblings have cleared my views on the subject.
Re: Meteor is now MIT licensed
#43I think they should've tried to commercialize it. There is a real lack of good, new development systems these days. If you completely open source a new system, developers will just rip it off, contribute nothing, and it will go nowhere. So where's the incentive to continue making it better? Developers need to wake up, and realize that new, and substantially better systems can be built if they are willing to pay for t…
there is a huge difference between platforms and IDEs
I do a fair bit of development of Django using PyCharm. Django is BSD licensed; PyCharm is closed-source. Both are, in my view, amazing tools.
Open source platforms are overwhelmingly dominant, awesome, and (at least for web frameworks) licensed as BSD/MIT or equivalent. Open source IDEs are uh... ...let's just say they're an acquired taste, and leave it at that.
Since we're talking about Meteor, the proper comparison appears to be platforms; as a result I have to say wavephorm is full of it. If he's trying to argue that Eclipse is terrible...well, he's right, but he's on the wrong thread. ;)
Re: Meteor is now MIT licensed
#44Maybe I'm just not the audience for Meteor, because while it looks like a great project but as a nodejs guy, the fact that it hides itself away from the platform and turned away from the fantastic npm makes me sort of weary about it as a whole. But I imagine people coming from rails or whatever don't find this a problem at all.
It's awesome to see that Meteor is now permissively licensed, but I would prefer to see them embrace npm as well.
Re: Meteor is now MIT licensed
#45Seriously, if I'm not capable of baking limitations into data persistence/logic at the server level then this entire framework is worthless except for building up a portfolio of cute demos that can't be used for any real work.
Re: Meteor is now MIT licensed
#46Re: Meteor is now MIT licensed
#47I feel it is sad that so few HN hackers seem to appreciate the vision of the GPL. GPL needs more indispensable software like this for it to thrive and protect us all from a future of completely locked down computers.
Re: Meteor is now MIT licensed
#48Re: Meteor is now MIT licensed
#49More importantly, how do I keep clients from fucking up my database? How is security being done? Seriously, if I'm not capable of baking limitations into data persistence/logic at the server level then this entire framework is worthless except for building up a portfolio of cute demos that can't be used for any real work.
Re: Meteor is now MIT licensed
#50I feel it is sad that so few HN hackers seem to appreciate the vision of the GPL. GPL needs more indispensable software like this for it to thrive and protect us all from a future of completely locked down computers.
I'm open to a compelling argument for why the GPL is better than a license that basically says "you can do whatever you want with this." (From the perspective of deterring the locking down of computers by corporations.)