81–90 of 186 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been running Wayland (sway) on FreeBSD flawlessly for years.
That totally misses the point. How about running Wayland on systems that a non-negligible number of people use, like Macs? Or even an enormous number of people, like Windows?
I don't know what I'm doing wrong with Wayland. I have a cheap Linux laptop, with built in graphics. And Wayland works perfectly. I can run multiple monitors with one of them rotated. When I tried that with X I got lots of juddery tearing. I can take screenshots and share my screens via video calls. But everyone says it doesn't work due to security. I have fractional scaling and it doesn't seem to burn out my CPU or…
There's no such thing as "wayland". There are only various different waylands. A person can have an experience with X11, there's standard reference features all X have. But your experience with a single wayland doesn't really give you knowledge of how waylands work (or don't work).
[flagged]
So it actually works now? Last time I tried switch to Wayland I also had to switch from i3 to Sway which just flat out refused to run until I gave it some hilariously insane command line argument like --my-next-gpu-wont-be-nvidia, and even then just crashed.
Demanding your users buy different (expensive!) hardware is obviously a non-starter. Especially if you want to do ML. Good luck without an nvidia card.
[flagged]
Few things are ever truly needed. Those things don't include Wayland. That doesn't mean there are reasons for it but it does mean you can't just discard the downsides.
> Xorg was complicated
And Wayland will be complicated too by the time its mature. Especially when you include all the other compontents needed to provide the same functionality as X.org
> Xorg was [...] insecure
Under what threat model? Personally I have no interest in the zero-trust model needed for proprietary app stores and would rather not pay the cost.
> the maintainers moved on to Wayland
A lot of those maintainers are employed by Red Hat and other corporations. They moved because their employers have reasons to move to Wayland - those reasons don't neccessarily matter to all users.
> Nobody else wanted to take up the mantle of maintaining an X implementation.
Isn't it a bit early to pronounce that. X is mature software. It works just fine for most people. Why would you expect someone to immediately jump at messing with it?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
You only get one chance to make a good first impression. Wayland is probably much better than when I tried it in 2019 but all I remember is the 2019 experience. I think a lot of people are in the same boat.
I wonder if you asked people their feelings about 1) Wayland, and 2) systemd, whether or not sentiment would be highly correlated. My first impression of both was when I had a problem.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
That totally misses the point. How about running Wayland on systems that a non-negligible number of people use, like Macs? Or even an enormous number of people, like Windows?
Why should be Windows or Mac support a concern for Wayland compositors? DWM or Quartz authors don't care about Linux either.
I don't know what I'm doing wrong with Wayland. I have a cheap Linux laptop, with built in graphics. And Wayland works perfectly. I can run multiple monitors with one of them rotated. When I tried that with X I got lots of juddery tearing. I can take screenshots and share my screens via video calls. But everyone says it doesn't work due to security. I have fractional scaling and it doesn't seem to burn out my CPU or…
You probably need an Nvidia graphics card. That was the source of all my problems when I first tried it. I dumped that shit and been using Intel graphics and Wayland (sway) happily since 2019.
Someone on HN pointed me at setting LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=true which makes it stable on my "radeon" driver GPUs at the cost of some performance (e.g. moving a window that is playing video causes the entire screen to freeze only while the window is moving). That should make it pretty stable with any KMS driver (though the nouveau module still crashes on me every 10 days of uptime or so; I've never been able to figure that one out).
I always point out that all of the issues I run into with Wayland on ATI/AMD GPUs also happen with hardware-compositing on X, but I can turn compositing on X off since it's optional, but, as the figures in TFA suggest, it's a core part of Wayland. I think one minor thing that has put so many people (or at least me) off of Wayland is how many issues are dismissed as "your GPU driver is broken." Well I can't write a GPU driver, and Xorg works better with a broken GPU driver than Wayland does.
My several years old laptop with an Intel P530 runs Wayland with zero issues, to the point where I can't tell you when I switched because it was zero drama. Maybe about a year ago? There was one feature in plasma that I needed to wait on before switching, but I don't even remember which one it was.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You haven't even mentioned which wayland compositor you are using. No idea. I'm using Pop OS. So whatever that uses. Gnome is the DE, I think?
>No idea. I'm using Pop OS. So you're being upvoted to the top by praising how flawless Wayland works on an OS that runs by default on X11? :)) Aww man, I hope there's a miscommunication somewhere, like you switched PopOS from X11 to Wayland, because otherwise this is HN comedy gold.
> When I tried that with X I got lots of juddery tearing.
They said it pretty explicitly
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been running Wayland (sway) on FreeBSD flawlessly for years.
That totally misses the point. How about running Wayland on systems that a non-negligible number of people use, like Macs? Or even an enormous number of people, like Windows?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
If those are insecurities, I want an insecure desktop. I use my computer to get things done, not be a paradigm of security.
Those aren't inherently insecurities, but the way X implemented them was quite insecure. Wayland is now having to do the heavy lifting of defining a secure protocol to implement it and migrating the entire Linux GUI ecosystem to using the new mechanisms. Also, I can take screenshots just fine on Wayland via KWin. I can't pick arbitrary 3p apps just yet but KWin's screenshotter is fine. Not sure about screen recording…
> Also, I can take screenshots just fine on Wayland via KWin. I can't pick arbitrary 3p apps just yet but KWin's screenshotter is fine.
Maybe in another nine years Wayland users can choose whatever screenshot tool they want. X is annoying but I'd go crazy if that was my life.