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My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

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Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#271

Post by eternityforest »

sleepybrett wrote: post #224
pixl97 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that barrel plugs are any better... I wish I would have wrote the model down posterity, but at one point I worked a trading company and a number of the users had ISDN at home. There were two 'different' modems, and I say different because only the model number on them notified you of it. One had a plug that output DC power. One had a plug that output AC power. They were the same size wall wart. Same size barrel.…

Barrel plugs ARE better because there is very little certainty about them so you always have to check the voltages/polarity. Because usb-a is near ubiquitously 5v over certain pins most people will plug in a usb-a into any socket they see.

It's the designated dumpster fire "Lol you're on your own" plug!

Probably the best connector we've got for things that need it, but I'm glad we have USB-PD power now

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#272

Post by eternityforest »

denotational wrote: post #2

This is the sort of thing that almost (but not quite) pushes me to support mandatory certification (enforced by patents/other IP protections) for consumer devices that use a familiar connector like USB. Consumers shouldn’t need to worry about the specific output voltage; the presence of a USB-A connector should indicate that it abides by the specification. The hacker in me hates the idea of enforcing something like t…

I'd rather see specific laws against bad voltages on USB.

Isn't there already some law somewhere against things that are so obviously not what a consumer would expect?

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#273

Post by ianburrell »

stephen_g wrote: post #119
cesarb wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just imagine if a small portion of standard-looking outlets did not output 220V (or whatever standard you have) and say 330V. We have something like that here in Brazil. On cities which use 127V as the standard voltage (some cities use 220V), you can get 220V by using a pair of phases instead of a phase and the neutral, and it's common to find a few standard-looking sockets which are 220V instead of 127V. They migh…

That sounds incredibly error prone and actually quite dangerous! At least a lot of AC to DC converters are universal voltage and frequency, but not all appliances! In Australia we have only one voltage that will ever come out of a single phase socket, but the standards took the opposite approach with current ratings - the sockets are cleverly designed in terms of their current capacity so (assuming it’s been installe…

Brazil should use outlets to indicate the voltage. With Type A for 127V, the worldwide standard for 120V plugs. Then Type N for 220V, where there is no standard but Type N is pretty good design. Changing outlets is pretty easy to do.

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#274

Post by Faark »

robin_reala wrote: post #82
akx wrote: post #77

Lidl does this too – the rotary tool Parkside PFBS 12 B3 comes with a charger that's obviously not USB-PD, but has an USB-C plug and it puts out a solid 13 volts at all times. (See https://www.kompernass.com/en/accessories/2316/charger-8 for an image.) I sent Lidl a courteous and long mail about this and they didn't really care other than "please open a service ticket with your local Lidl", which I didn't care to do…

Is there any EU body you can report them to?

Well, i had the same question and looking for this & the rules in general was... lets call it "a fun evening".

Those common charger EU rules pushing USB-C via the Radio Equipment Directive are actually only for the device, and even a specific list of types. But in briefing document [2] (made for RED change last year) mentions:

> a separate initiative on the eco-design for the external power supply (EPS) would harmonise the EPS-side receptacle and the communication protocol.

So "EPS" is what we are looking for and they use some eco laws to regulate them. [1] gives an overview and links COMMISSION REGULATION (EU) 2019/1782. And again, it only applies to a specific set of devices, with power tools not being listed. Doubt those fall under "Other toys, leisure and sports equipment"^^

Back to that EPS initiative... from my understanding, it [3] seems to be still "Planned for Third quarter 2023". Feedback period ended in May 2022, ofc.

The department seems to have vacant spot [4] for an expert, btw :)

[1] https://commission.europa.eu/energy-climate-change-environme... [2] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/6988... [3] https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-sa... [4] https://www.cnr.it/sites/default/files/public/media/internaz...

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#275

Post by xenadu02 »

baq wrote: post #160
can16358p wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think when it comes to safety restrictions should be there. The hacker in me hates it too but just imagine if a small portion of standard-looking outlets did not output 220V (or whatever standard you have) and say 330V. Many applicances would break, or perhaps even catch fire. If there were many different USB-A devices and people were used to checking the voltage output before plugging, that might not be needed, bu…

> The hacker in me hates it too but just imagine if a small portion of standard-looking outlets did not output 220V (or whatever standard you have) and say 330V. Overvoltage is now routine in places where there's lots of PV installed in homes and not enough load nearby. If you live in such a place, you have a deep appreciation of varistors and should have either good insurance or a little bit of soldering skills... p…

> Overvoltage is now routine in places where there's lots of PV installed in homes and not enough load nearby.

Every solar inverter / microinverter manufactured in the past two decades (if not older) must monitor the grid voltage+frequency and disconnect if it falls outside of a certain tolerance. If things go out of tolerance there is a defined period of time where it must recover or the inverter is required to trip out. There are also hard safety limits that cannot be exceeded whatsoever. I am not aware of any conditions that would result in overvoltage.

In CA as of (IIRC) 2021 these systems must be hooked up to some kind of online monitoring so the utility can temporarily command them to exceed tolerances. If the grid is going unstable due to load the last thing you want is everyone's PV system tripping off making the supply situation worse. So the utility can inform the system to exceed the normally tight tolerances by a larger deviation. They can also command PVs systems to shut off but there are strict limits on how often and how long they can do that and it must be driven by grid stability needs.

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#276

Post by s1artibartfast »

_a_a_a_ wrote: post #268
s1artibartfast wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think I have negative opinions about doing the right thing, or my comments aren't useful. Perhaps CCing trading standards is actually a good idea, and Im glad I raised a valid concern about the utility of emailing the supplier alone.

It didn't appear constructive, just implying that they were going to do their best to lose the email. Here in the UK it's quite easy to get stuff fixed. A few years ago, a single complaint to trading standards by me got a can relabelled properly with its ingredients. Failing that, I know from prior experience that companies hate being embarrassed. They really value their image, and risking house fires for your consum…

I agree that it is a lot easier to do a drive by shoot down of someone else's idea than provide a constructive solution. That has to be balanced with the idea that a dose of realism is necessary for improvement and iteration.

As such, I don't think negative is always bad.

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#277

Post by Shekelphile »

NotYourLawyer wrote: post #65
londons_explore wrote: post #11

9v or 12v over USB-A is reasonably common here in Asia... You always need to check the voltage rating before randomly plugging stuff in if it isn't from a big manufacturer. For example, the handwarmers I'm using right now are USB-A at 12 volts, but have a dial to adjust the voltage up and down between 0 volts and 12 volts to adjust the temperature (I think it's actually PWM on the 12v power lines, but haven't actuall…

That’s terrible . Why don’t they just use a barrel plug?

Because the EU banned barrel connectors.

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#278

Post by jeroenhd »

ricardobeat wrote: post #263
jeroenhd wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the CE marking indicates is that the product complies with European specifications. As far as I know, there are no EU/EEA specifications regarding the voltage of an USB port. This may violate the USB spec and burn out phones, but it's not necessarily undeserving of the CE mark.

Turns out the new regulation for chargers and USB-C universal compatibility actually demands USB Power Delivery [1] support, but I guess it's too early to expect compliance with that. Even without that, one would hope that part of the compliance tests includes actual compliance with whatever port specification is being used - I don't think any part of the USB spec allows for 7.5V, but I might be wrong. You just would…

I quote from the regulation you linked:

> The requirements set out in points 2 and 3 of this Part shall apply to the following categories or classes of radio equipment:

> 1.1. handheld mobile phones;

> 1.2. tablets;

> 1.3. digital cameras;

> 1.4. headphones;

> 1.5. headsets;

> 1.6. handheld videogame consoles;

> 1.7. portable speakers;

> 1.8. e-readers;

> 1.9. keyboards;

> 1.10. mice;

> 1.11. portable navigation systems;

> 1.12. earbuds;

> 1.13. laptops.

Unless you can convince your local standards authority that the cat water fountain you bought is actually a weird looking portable speaker, I don't think this law applies her.

Unfortunate, really, because USB port really shouldn't use non-standard voltages. I'm sure there's some consumer protection law you could use in court to make the manufacturer pay for damage if they damaged your devices (there are a bunch of "a product should work like you would expect" types of laws sprinkled across consumer protection laws) but I don't think this violates CE standards.

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#279

Post by salad-tycoon »

tkems wrote: post #154
hammock wrote: post #147

I thought he was going to say there was current in the water. I remember showering in Costa Rica at a “hotel” and the shower head was one of those that heats the water (with an electric heater) and it was shocking me the whole time I used it. Probably shouldn’t have used it Apparently those are common in central and South America.

I remember this video [1] from bigclive about it. I had no idea it was so common to have live wires in contact with water. At least they are grounded sometimes? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNjA0aee07k

Sometimes. In my experience in living in 3rd world it’s more like extremely rarely. The tingle just lets you know it’s working.

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#280

Post by fomine3 »

jorvi wrote: post #111
homefree wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the reason I only use apple chargers for charging everything.

There are much higher quality chargers (and cables) than Apple's. Anker is well known, and Baseus is getting there. They are especially nice because they make GaN chargers, putting a lot of power in a tiny package. It honestly kind of baffles me how crappy Apple's cables and chargers are when they simultaneously make one of the best USB-C to 3.5mm DACs on the market, and then sell it for $10 .

My anecdote is that Baseus adapter seems to broke my AirPods. Anker is now considered to the best charger brand available in the market.
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