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$750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

latimes.com

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Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#141

Post by thinkingtoilet »

ciguy wrote: post #32
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you call all homeless people "mentally ill drug addicts" is very telling. Do some basic research. I hope you find some empathy in your heart.

I don't need to research, I deal with them on a daily basis just to go about my day because in my town they are everywhere. The fact that you are ready to simply dismiss someones lived experience based on a few flawed studies tells me everything I need to know about your agenda.

Surely you know the difference between anecdotal data and actual research?

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#142

Post by eli »

paulpauper wrote: post #127
eli wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Food credits" are an expensive and paternalistic Big Government approach to the problem. Is the idea that poor people don't know they need to buy food? Or that the government knows what you should be eating better than you do? SNAP spends something like $0.15 of every dollar on administrative and has complicated rules.

better and cheaper than the $750 going to drugs or alcohol? >Big Government Food credits or $750, you realize it's still coming from taxpayers either way? If someone is homeless it means that they already failed and need help. There is no way it cannot be paternalistic. The question is what is the best solution.

> better and cheaper than the $750 going to drugs or alcohol?

It didn't. That was one of the conclusions of the study being discussed.

At the risk of stating the obvious: someone who's homeless may need medical treatment or, you know, a home more than they need food at that moment.

> Food credits or $750, you realize it's still coming from taxpayers either way?

The method that costs much less to administer... costs much less to administer.

> If someone is homeless it means that they already failed and need help.

That's obviously not true. And also isn't how we view the taxpayer-funded fire department coming to put out a house fire.

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#143

Post by ryuhhnn »

everfree wrote: post #114
ryuhhnn wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you even ask a question like this? It’s clear that our society has issues that stem from people’s inability to navigate our complicated modern world. Your “why not just let them suffer” provocation adds nothing productive to this discussion.

The other reply to my comment proves that my question wasn't a provocation, but a successful intuition of some people's beliefs in this thread. Further, the US' lack of universal healthcare shows that it's a societally acceptable stance to not give aid to ill people just because they are ill. I'm not trying to provoke anyone, I'm trying to clarify their belief within a set of beliefs that are socially acceptable.

> This is not an extreme political opinion, nor something that is unreasonable to ask someone whether they believe.

Why are you asking if this is something they believe if by your own admission it’s a position that is widely held? Again, how is your question not a provocation? And why am I still entertaining it?

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#144

Post by Georgelemental »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #124
Georgelemental wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Nayib Bukele ignored the "experts" and locked up nearly 2% of El Salvador's population, not only did the homicide rate fall off a cliff—economic growth also increased. (Bukele also worked hard to woo foreign investors, without which this would not have been possible; but those investors only felt confident in investing due to the decrease in crime.)

What do we do if we just don't want to live in that world? What's the plan B?

Someone is going to impose their rules on the rest of us. The only choice we have is who that someone is. "Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made."

(And yes, not every society has had to go as far as Bukele to acheive prosperity, freedom, and peace. All crooked timber is crooked in its own way, and different populations need different solutions but the basic principle is the same everywhere.)

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#145

Post by pseudalopex »

nshkr wrote: post #31

As someone who is nearing 2,000 days of two stints of homelessness since 2017, I can offer feedback that such an amount would help to alleviate basic survival pressures. But, money will not solve any root cause issues. I've been unhoused and out of work for so long that any recovery back to a normal life has become exceedingly unlikely. I don't drink alcohol, I don't smoke, nor do I do illicit drugs nor prescriptions…

Your perspective is valuable. But most homeless people are homeless under a year. Money solves many of their problems.

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#146

Post by brnt »

Georgelemental wrote: post #122
brnt wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't need to be either or, you know. Or even those answers at all. Or a mix. Question is: where can you start to make positive and effective changes? The answer almost certainly includes education and preventing people from falling into poverty. You can fight and deter crime at the same time. You probably need all of those, but I'm pretty sure fighting crime alone isn't very effective.

I agree! But even with the best education and social support, a small minority will still turn to victimizing others, and no progress is possible until they are neutralized.

I think getting it down to a small minority would already be great progress!

Not sure getting it down to zero is the right or primary goal though. It sounds like an excellent way to require ever larger budgets and fund some pork machine.

Let's first get it down, then worry about going to zero. Has anyone ever managed zero? At what cost?

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#147

Post by Georgelemental »

ryuhhnn wrote: post #131
Georgelemental wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Nayib Bukele ignored the "experts" and locked up nearly 2% of El Salvador's population, not only did the homicide rate fall off a cliff—economic growth also increased. (Bukele also worked hard to woo foreign investors, without which this would not have been possible; but those investors only felt confident in investing due to the decrease in crime.)

Nobody should be surprised that removing an entire portion of the population would cause the homicide rate to fall the same way nobody would be surprised that there is less rainfall on a day that has less cloud coverage. This isn’t really addressing my point at all. The point is that crime happens because of a set of conditions. You cannot expect crime to be reduced if you remove the “criminals” without addressing th…

> Nobody should be surprised that removing an entire portion of the population would cause the homicide rate to fall the same way nobody would be surprised that there is less rainfall on a day that has less cloud coverage.

If the homicide rate had fallen by only 2%, I would not have considered it notable. In effectively all societies, the vast majority of serious crimes are committed by a tiny sliver of the population who offend again and again. Deal with that sliver, and everyone else can breathe free.

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#149

Post by readthenotes1 »

soupfordummies wrote: post #125
ecommerceguy wrote: post #91

The top federal income tax rate was 91 percent in 1950 and 1951, and between 1954 and 1959. In 1952 and 1953, the top federal income tax rate was 92 percent. (USA) We need to go back to this. Wealth inequality is damaging society far more than ever. From Onlyfans to Bitcoins Scams, social media platforms has only exacerbated the issue. Will the pendulum swing back to morality and just cause away from lawlessness and…

Woah, had no idea it was that high. And that's in a decade that is considered one of the best in US history (if you were the "right" demographic of course). Any idea what the top tax bracket was that had that rate? Wonder what it would be now adjusted for inflation.

A more important question is how many people actually paid that rate since the tax code was chock full of loopholes, much more than now.

Trump manages to pay almost no income taxes for several decades because of a few minor loopholes left behind. Imagine what that meant in the 1950s

Re: $750 a month, no questions asked, improved the lives of homeless people

#150

Post by everfree »

ryuhhnn wrote: post #143
everfree wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other reply to my comment proves that my question wasn't a provocation, but a successful intuition of some people's beliefs in this thread. Further, the US' lack of universal healthcare shows that it's a societally acceptable stance to not give aid to ill people just because they are ill. I'm not trying to provoke anyone, I'm trying to clarify their belief within a set of beliefs that are socially acceptable.

> This is not an extreme political opinion, nor something that is unreasonable to ask someone whether they believe. Why are you asking if this is something they believe if by your own admission it’s a position that is widely held? Again, how is your question not a provocation? And why am I still entertaining it?

The opposite belief is also held relatively widely.
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