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Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

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Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#181

Post by throwawaaarrgh »

I work remote, so I control who interrupts me. I can turn off Slack notifications, I can close my email, I can put up a calendar entry for 4 hours.

But I still have to do something to control my time. A door isn't enough, because someone will just knock or open it. You have to put in effort and plan ahead to control your workflow.

A lot of people seem to believe that work should be easy. It's actually difficult and complex to work really efficiently. It requires knowledge of how to work efficiently, and then it requires a lot of people to stick to a process, someone to measure it and keep people on track, and continuously changing it to improve. That's a lot more than just "don't interrupt me".

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#182

Post by AmericanChopper »

ath3nd wrote: post #37

People like you are the reason I personally don't want to be in an office. > asking quick questions and getting an instant answer. vs chat where I may not get an answer for hours. Basically like having a toddler around. Sorry for the negative take here but how it's written it feels like you don't necessarily realize that some people do need deep work, and prioritize your quick satisfaction to other's focus. Or I migh…

This is a pretty common anti-pattern with how technical ICs view their work. No matter how technical or silo’d you are, your work is always going to be inherently collaborative, and your ability to collaborate with others is a hard bottleneck on everybody else’s ability to extract any value at all from the work you do.

Managing or working with ICs with this perspective is also a lot like having a toddler around.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#183

Post by Underqualified »

throw0101c wrote: post #119
esskay wrote: post #106

It has to be said, if you're employing programmers and making them sit in an openplan office you're willingly and knowingly making their job significantly harder, and their day worse. Open plan might work great for some types of work, but for highly technical and mentally taxing work it's quite litterally the worst possible working environment you could be providing. There's a reason that many programmers prefer to w…

> Open plan might work great for some types of work […] I'm curious to know: why types are, or people consider to be, good for open plan? Generally, office type jobs tends to be one where people need to use their brains to concentrate on something, and open plans tend to be able to create / not block distractions, they would be antithetical to being able to concentrate.

Manufacturing, close to the floor, where you often need to react fast and start in the morning with no idea what you will be doing that day, yet will still have more work than hours.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#184

Post by joshjje »

Loughla wrote: post #144
hmaxwell wrote: post #52

I work at a 30 person company in a partitioned office designed for four people, including the CEO, a graphic designer, and a secretary. My role involves focused programming tasks, which are frequently disrupted by the office dynamics. When the CEO is away, the graphic designer and secretary frequently engage in loud, casual conversations, discussing everything from personal matters to home decor, like curtain colors.…

>This concern about appearances adds another layer to the already challenging office environment. This sentence sums up the biggest headache of my professional career. I have never worried about appearances, but instead focused on doing good work. To my detriment. I know I've missed out on key assignments and at least one promotion at my current employer because I don't sell myself or focus on perception management.…

Thats one reason I prefer small companies. Less bureaucratic BS, more accountability, etc. Sure there isn't as much room for career growth and other downsides, but much simpler.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#185

Post by netbioserror »

Similar issue: My small-ish company used to hand out the emails and phone numbers of its programmers. After enough of them threatened to leave because our customer-facing offices were constantly distracting them from projects, their policy changed entirely. Now there is a Jira firewall, managed by a liaison, and we get to things when we get to them. A distraction-free environment is the only way to get your money's worth from a good programmer.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#186

Post by dragonelite »

joshjje wrote: post #171
coev wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One private room per team works very well for programmers without the expense justification. The two most productive jobs I've ever had in an office were with that arrangement, not cubicles or open offices.

Cubicles are OK as long as there isn't a lot of chatter, people being on the phone all the time, talking loud, etc. Though of course id rather be in my own room no doubt.

Cancelling sound distractions with NC headsets isn't that bad. Cubicles will most likely help with visual distraction i have in an open floor plan.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#187

Post by dotnet00 »

ffgjgf1 wrote: post #108
ath3nd wrote: post #37

People like you are the reason I personally don't want to be in an office. > asking quick questions and getting an instant answer. vs chat where I may not get an answer for hours. Basically like having a toddler around. Sorry for the negative take here but how it's written it feels like you don't necessarily realize that some people do need deep work, and prioritize your quick satisfaction to other's focus. Or I migh…

> you don't necessarily realize that some people do need deep work, and prioritize your quick satisfaction to other's focus Surely there must be ways to balance these things? When you want to ask someone a question it shouldn’t be too hard to infer whether it’s a good time to do that now or you should wait (if it is, well it’s exactly a very hard skill to learn if you put in some effort)

I feel like that's exactly what email or pinging someone in a group chat is for, or at least that's how I prefer it.

If I'm deeply focused on something else, I'll just ignore the notification, if I'm available I'll respond.

Bonus points for just posting it to a team group chat or CC-ing everyone involved so someone else might be able to handle it.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#188

Post by otteromkram »

dmatech wrote: post #154
sokoloff wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who wins? The CFO and corp real estate people (correctly) saying how much more expensive (and less flexible to changing team size) a building with enough private offices is.

They don't necessarily need to be big offices. It's just that corporations generally do seating based on seniority and status, not need. They have tiny cubes for worker bees and giant private offices for the queens. Even small offices require more costly building materials than large cubicles. So even a high density might still be somewhat expensive. Fortunately, there are opportunities for cheaper commercial real es…

> They have tiny cubes for worker bees [...]

Not sure if you're on the same page as this conversation.

Open offices don't really have cubicles.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#189

Post by theshrike79 »

beeboobaa wrote: post #165
robertlagrant wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it feels like you don't necessarily realize that some people do need deep work, and prioritize your quick satisfaction to other's focus. This is very one-sided. If you can unblock someone now so they don't spend 3 hours searching through the local intranet for some information, then that makes your team faster. There's a balance to be had, of course, but your team's overall delivery is what's important. > I view it…

> If you can unblock someone now so they don't spend 3 hours Past your training period you are responsible for your own productivity. Don't make it the problem of your peers.

You are clearly not a team player.

The goal is to make the team succeed, not to be individual rockstars.

Re: Why do programmers need private offices with doors?

#190

Post by orangepurple »

ath3nd wrote: post #115
esskay wrote: post #106

It has to be said, if you're employing programmers and making them sit in an openplan office you're willingly and knowingly making their job significantly harder, and their day worse. Open plan might work great for some types of work, but for highly technical and mentally taxing work it's quite litterally the worst possible working environment you could be providing. There's a reason that many programmers prefer to w…

Who would win: - literally 100s of publications showing how disruptive and destructive to focus it is to be working in an open office work and how much distractions it brings: https://theconversation.com/returning-to-the-workplace-heres... https://hbr.org/2019/11/the-truth-about-open-offices https://www.businessdit.com/distraction-work-statistics/ https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/minds-business/eve... https:…

> A bunch of extroverts who just can't wait to tell you what they did over the weekend and a bunch of C-level dudes who can't believe work can be done if they PERSONALLY can't see you at your desk working.

The sight of people in an open office plan is merely an expensive therapy session for these guys

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