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My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

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Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#31

Post by currency »

wiredfool wrote: post #17
denotational wrote: post #2

This is the sort of thing that almost (but not quite) pushes me to support mandatory certification (enforced by patents/other IP protections) for consumer devices that use a familiar connector like USB. Consumers shouldn’t need to worry about the specific output voltage; the presence of a USB-A connector should indicate that it abides by the specification. The hacker in me hates the idea of enforcing something like t…

It's got a CE mark, but it's unclear if it's valid or not. This is a mandatory certification in the EU, like the UL listing in the US. The device is specifying the output voltage, which isn't in spec for the connector, but it is (apparently) accurate.

There's a deceptively similar mark that stands for China Export and does not indicate EU certification[0].

[0]https://www.kimuagroup.com/news/differences-between-ce-and-c...

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#32

Post by metafunctor »

loufe wrote: post #13

My recent work experience leads me to believe CE approval is a rubber stamp. I don't have any clue what that certification is worth to anyone.

I've understood the CE marking to mean that according to the manufacturer, the device shouldn't catch fire, shouldn't shock me, and shouldn't give off a lot of radio interference.

Never did I thank that would be some kind of "this is a great thing" approval stamp.

However, it never occurred to me that a USB-A charging brick would be able to give 7.5V, or even 9V or 12V as others have commented. That might completely fry some devices...

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#33

Post by justsomehnguy »

nicolaslem wrote: post #26
can16358p wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think when it comes to safety restrictions should be there. The hacker in me hates it too but just imagine if a small portion of standard-looking outlets did not output 220V (or whatever standard you have) and say 330V. Many applicances would break, or perhaps even catch fire. If there were many different USB-A devices and people were used to checking the voltage output before plugging, that might not be needed, bu…

From my experience appliances tolerate a wide range of voltages. The outlets in my house routinely deviate from the standard 230V, with the lowest I have seen at 170V and highest at about 260V. I have not had any appliance malfunction. Edit: I am not advising anyone to deliberately do stupid things, simply mentioning that from my experience the builtin margin is fairly large.

Anything with an AC/DC transformation would be fine, anything with an AC motor would be not. Partially, not the every compressor in a refrigerator would tolerate that.

But 170V... yikes!

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#34

Post by lxgr »

wiredfool wrote: post #17
denotational wrote: post #2

This is the sort of thing that almost (but not quite) pushes me to support mandatory certification (enforced by patents/other IP protections) for consumer devices that use a familiar connector like USB. Consumers shouldn’t need to worry about the specific output voltage; the presence of a USB-A connector should indicate that it abides by the specification. The hacker in me hates the idea of enforcing something like t…

It's got a CE mark, but it's unclear if it's valid or not. This is a mandatory certification in the EU, like the UL listing in the US. The device is specifying the output voltage, which isn't in spec for the connector, but it is (apparently) accurate.

Fair point, but given that some manufacturers have no problem at all to just blatantly use brand names without permission, having a CE mark is unfortunately not a sure sign that a device has ever been inside a certification lab…

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#36

Post by bayindirh »

nicolaslem wrote: post #26
can16358p wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think when it comes to safety restrictions should be there. The hacker in me hates it too but just imagine if a small portion of standard-looking outlets did not output 220V (or whatever standard you have) and say 330V. Many applicances would break, or perhaps even catch fire. If there were many different USB-A devices and people were used to checking the voltage output before plugging, that might not be needed, bu…

From my experience appliances tolerate a wide range of voltages. The outlets in my house routinely deviate from the standard 230V, with the lowest I have seen at 170V and highest at about 260V. I have not had any appliance malfunction. Edit: I am not advising anyone to deliberately do stupid things, simply mentioning that from my experience the builtin margin is fairly large.

Most of them are either 110-240V appliances, or lose performance when it goes around 170, and you may not notice.

260V is in +/- 10% threshold and is possibly falls within "engineered in tolerance" range, but will probably shorten the life of many appliances if supplied constantly.

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#37

Post by dagw »

loufe wrote: post #13

My recent work experience leads me to believe CE approval is a rubber stamp. I don't have any clue what that certification is worth to anyone.

CE approval is not only a rubber stamp, it's a rubber stamp you get to apply yourself. By applying the CE mark you a certifying that your product fulfils all the necessary requirements and that you can document it, but no one will actually check. While it is illegal to apply the CE mark to a non-conforming product (or to sell or import non-conforming products with the CE mark), basically nobody gets prosecuted.

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#38

Post by anonu »

lxgr wrote: post #28

This actually makes me quite happy that most stuff does not come with a wall adapter anymore these days, but only with a USB plug. There are much worse things than 7V that a bad adapter can output. One of the scariest failure modes I’ve recently learned about is a supply that still provides 5V between both pins – but 225V and 230V to ground, respectively…

> respectively

not sure I follow you. can you clarify what you mean by both 225v and 230v to ground? You are measuring the potential between ground and USB output?

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#39

Post by hddherman »

fishbacon wrote: post #22

I am concerned that there are no pictures of the adorable cats in the post. It sound like the manufacturers just see USB-A as a convenient and cheap connector for delivering power.

Hi, author here, I've fixed that in the post now.

Re: My cat water fountain comes with a spicy USB power adapter

#40

Post by lxgr »

thriftwy wrote: post #18
denotational wrote: post #2

This is the sort of thing that almost (but not quite) pushes me to support mandatory certification (enforced by patents/other IP protections) for consumer devices that use a familiar connector like USB. Consumers shouldn’t need to worry about the specific output voltage; the presence of a USB-A connector should indicate that it abides by the specification. The hacker in me hates the idea of enforcing something like t…

Why not have efficient law and just sue large sums out of misbehaving manufacturers? Then you no longer punish the innocent.

If you can get a hold of the manufacturer, sure. But don’t count on Amazon or other marketplaces helping you with that: They’re not a reseller, as they’ll be happy to tell you; no liability! (And no responsibility for collecting customs payments either.)
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