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The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

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Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#91

Post by dctoedt »

nec4b wrote: post #90
dctoedt wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're equating a few outliers trying to get attention, with an armed mob of thousands — summoned, dispatched, and then egged on by the sitting POTUS. JFC.

Are you trying to say if only a few outliers bomb a building is somehow ok? Or because they were far left terrorist its nothing to worry about?

> Are you trying to say if only a few outliers bomb a building is somehow ok?

No. That's false-dichotomy thinking, along the lines of, "It HAS to be either A or B, and it's not B, so it MUST be A."

> Or because they were far left terrorist its nothing to worry about?

No. They're both bad. But:

1. The BLM rioting was mostly spontaneous and rag-tag, whereas Jan. 6 was orchestrated by the then-Commander in Chief of the U.S. armed forces, aided and abetted by his acolytes in and out of government (including outsiders such as the Proud Boys); and

2. The societal risks to democratic governance differed enormously. Unlike the BLM rioting, Jan. 6 could conceivably have played out like the October Revolution in the Russia of 1917, where an armed Leninist minority seized power and displaced the Kerensky provisional government that had itself taken control in the wake of the February Revolution. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Revolution

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#92

Post by nec4b »

dctoedt wrote: post #91
nec4b wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trying to say if only a few outliers bomb a building is somehow ok? Or because they were far left terrorist its nothing to worry about?

> Are you trying to say if only a few outliers bomb a building is somehow ok? No. That's false-dichotomy thinking, along the lines of, "It HAS to be either A or B, and it's not B, so it MUST be A." > Or because they were far left terrorist its nothing to worry about? No. They're both bad. But: 1. The BLM rioting was mostly spontaneous and rag-tag, whereas Jan. 6 was orchestrated by the then-Commander in Chief of the…

>> The BLM rioting was mostly spontaneous and rag-tag

Sure they were. I wonder why they are otherwise organized and have leadership and full approval of the party which is currently in power?

>> The societal risks to democratic governance differed enormously. Unlike the BLM rioting

Unlike BLM rioting or bombing of the capitol by the far left terrorist they didn't do any property damage or attack other people on the street.

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#93

Post by vGPU »

dctoedt wrote: post #84
vGPU wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you forgotten how many democrats have called for the murder and/or execution of trump publicly? Give me a break.

> Have you forgotten how many democrats have called for the murder and/or execution of trump publicly? Citation, please?

https://thoughtcatalog.com/daniel-hayes/2016/03/i-will-liter...

https://www.thewrap.com/hollywood-stars-donald-trump-violent...

‘I hope Trump is assassinated’

- Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#94

Post by dctoedt »

vGPU wrote: post #93
dctoedt wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you forgotten how many democrats have called for the murder and/or execution of trump publicly? Citation, please?

https://thoughtcatalog.com/daniel-hayes/2016/03/i-will-liter... https://www.thewrap.com/hollywood-stars-donald-trump-violent... ‘I hope Trump is assassinated’ - Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal

OK, ya got me: You managed to find one case from 2017 involving one Dem state senator (who was promptly yanked from all her committee assignments after her comment and "chose" not to run for reelection). Oh, and you found a bunch of rants from comedians, actors, and other powerless publicity-seeking hotheads — who can be found in all walks of life and of all political persuasions. Did you find anything in, say, the past couple of years?

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#95

Post by dctoedt »

nec4b wrote: post #92
dctoedt wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you trying to say if only a few outliers bomb a building is somehow ok? No. That's false-dichotomy thinking, along the lines of, "It HAS to be either A or B, and it's not B, so it MUST be A." > Or because they were far left terrorist its nothing to worry about? No. They're both bad. But: 1. The BLM rioting was mostly spontaneous and rag-tag, whereas Jan. 6 was orchestrated by the then-Commander in Chief of the…

>> The BLM rioting was mostly spontaneous and rag-tag Sure they were. I wonder why they are otherwise organized and have leadership and full approval of the party which is currently in power? >> The societal risks to democratic governance differed enormously. Unlike the BLM rioting Unlike BLM rioting or bombing of the capitol by the far left terrorist they didn't do any property damage or attack other people on the s…

> I wonder why they [BLM rioters] are otherwise organized and have leadership and full approval of the party which is currently in power?

I don't think you can support that contention with, y'know, evidence. Keep in mind that some — not all — of the so-called BLM arson incidents were later found to have been done as false-flag operations by far-right extremist types [0] or as plain old insurance fraud. [1]

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo...

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/minnesota-trump-support...

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#96

Post by dctoedt »

nec4b wrote: post #92
dctoedt wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you trying to say if only a few outliers bomb a building is somehow ok? No. That's false-dichotomy thinking, along the lines of, "It HAS to be either A or B, and it's not B, so it MUST be A." > Or because they were far left terrorist its nothing to worry about? No. They're both bad. But: 1. The BLM rioting was mostly spontaneous and rag-tag, whereas Jan. 6 was orchestrated by the then-Commander in Chief of the…

>> The BLM rioting was mostly spontaneous and rag-tag Sure they were. I wonder why they are otherwise organized and have leadership and full approval of the party which is currently in power? >> The societal risks to democratic governance differed enormously. Unlike the BLM rioting Unlike BLM rioting or bombing of the capitol by the far left terrorist they didn't do any property damage or attack other people on the s…

> Unlike BLM rioting or bombing of the capitol by the far left terrorist they didn't do any property damage or attack other people on the street.

Oh. I guess that makes it OK for the armed right-wing mob to try to seize control of the national government — and to go looking for the sitting VP and Speaker of the House, seemingly with lynching in mind.

(Leftist bombing? You mean by the Weather Underground in 1971, at the height of the Vietnam War? That doesn't excuse it by any means, course, but it's so old as to be irrelevant to today's discussion.)

https://www.history.com/news/us-capitol-building-violence-fi...

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#97

Post by nec4b »

dctoedt wrote: post #95
nec4b wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The BLM rioting was mostly spontaneous and rag-tag Sure they were. I wonder why they are otherwise organized and have leadership and full approval of the party which is currently in power? >> The societal risks to democratic governance differed enormously. Unlike the BLM rioting Unlike BLM rioting or bombing of the capitol by the far left terrorist they didn't do any property damage or attack other people on the s…

> I wonder why they [BLM rioters] are otherwise organized and have leadership and full approval of the party which is currently in power? I don't think you can support that contention with, y'know, evidence . Keep in mind that some — not all — of the so-called BLM arson incidents were later found to have been done as false-flag operations by far-right extremist types [0] or as plain old insurance fraud. [1] [0] https…

What do you mean without evidence? You are contesting BLM has leadership? They have a website, you can check it out. Regarding the democratic party support, there are a lot of videos from cnn and other networks interviews where visible member give their support to BLM.

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#98

Post by nec4b »

dctoedt wrote: post #96
nec4b wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The BLM rioting was mostly spontaneous and rag-tag Sure they were. I wonder why they are otherwise organized and have leadership and full approval of the party which is currently in power? >> The societal risks to democratic governance differed enormously. Unlike the BLM rioting Unlike BLM rioting or bombing of the capitol by the far left terrorist they didn't do any property damage or attack other people on the s…

> Unlike BLM rioting or bombing of the capitol by the far left terrorist they didn't do any property damage or attack other people on the street. Oh. I guess that makes it OK for the armed right-wing mob to try to seize control of the national government — and to go looking for the sitting VP and Speaker of the House, seemingly with lynching in mind. (Leftist bombing? You mean by the Weather Underground in 1971, at t…

You are the one claiming leftist violence is just a fluke, just kids having fun with robbing, beating and arson. At the same time claiming a much smaller right-wing transgression is the end of the world. The are an examples of right-wing terrorist actions that are much much more despicable and truly destructable. Unlike you I have no problem condemning either side when they are wrong.

>> That doesn't excuse it by any means, course, but it's so old as to be irrelevant to today's discussion.

You must be kidding. Should we also not talk about people and ideology that brought us world war 2, since it has been even longer then the Vietnam war?

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#99

Post by dctoedt »

nec4b wrote: post #97
dctoedt wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder why they [BLM rioters] are otherwise organized and have leadership and full approval of the party which is currently in power? I don't think you can support that contention with, y'know, evidence . Keep in mind that some — not all — of the so-called BLM arson incidents were later found to have been done as false-flag operations by far-right extremist types [0] or as plain old insurance fraud. [1] [0] https…

What do you mean without evidence? You are contesting BLM has leadership? They have a website, you can check it out. Regarding the democratic party support, there are a lot of videos from cnn and other networks interviews where visible member give their support to BLM.

You're painting with a broad brush: "BLM" ≠ "rioting."

EDIT: From a 2020 Trump Administration report: "President Donald Trump has blamed leftwing extremist groups for instigating nights of looting and violence in cities across the United States, but an intelligence assessment offers limited evidence that organized extremists are behind the turmoil. [¶] In part of a June 1 internal intelligence assessment of the protests seen by Reuters, U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) officials said most of the violence appears to have been driven by opportunists." [0]

[0] https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN23A1MZ/

Re: The debt problem is enormous, and the system for fixing it is broken

#100

Post by dctoedt »

nec4b wrote: post #98
dctoedt wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike BLM rioting or bombing of the capitol by the far left terrorist they didn't do any property damage or attack other people on the street. Oh. I guess that makes it OK for the armed right-wing mob to try to seize control of the national government — and to go looking for the sitting VP and Speaker of the House, seemingly with lynching in mind. (Leftist bombing? You mean by the Weather Underground in 1971, at t…

You are the one claiming leftist violence is just a fluke, just kids having fun with robbing, beating and arson. At the same time claiming a much smaller right-wing transgression is the end of the world. The are an examples of right-wing terrorist actions that are much much more despicable and truly destructable. Unlike you I have no problem condemning either side when they are wrong. >> That doesn't excuse it by any…

We'll have to agree to disagree about that, because obviously each of us thinks the other has his (her?) head firmly jammed up a warm dark place.
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