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Plan to End E-Vehicle Subsidies Sparks Anger in Germany

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Re: Plan to End E-Vehicle Subsidies Sparks Anger in Germany

#31

Post by mrangle »

elzbardico wrote: post #22

The problem with e-vehicle subsidies is that for some reason we as society decided that an electrical car should also be a luxury car with insane and impractical acceleration, humungous range numbers and all kind of creature conforts and aesthetical fru-fru you can imagine. It doesn't even matter if people don't get rid of their petrol boxes, as long as they are kept as a second car for the very rare long-distance tr…

>We just need to sell them on this: keep your ICE if you want, we don't care as long as you get this cheap electrical econo-box.

Magnanimous

Sarcasm aside, keep in mind that cheap isn't cheap. Even "cheap" cars are often priced at the the annual takehome pay of most of the population. The only thing that made them "cheap" was cheap financing, which has gone away and isn't returning. If one introduces a geopolitics lens, it isn't returning for the same reason that Germany will no longer offer the subsidy. Which is a way of preferencing fossil fuels and their suppliers.

If the West is massively pro renewables, then why would Germany, specifically, do this? Why is the West so histrionic for "clean energy"? The assertion that politicians care about people and living spaces very much is the toughest sell.

Moving on: if governments want to disincentivize petroleum use without rank authoritarianism, soon they will have to subsidize or otherwise provide auto lending. Also, maybe offer subsidies for maintenance and charging.

Re: Plan to End E-Vehicle Subsidies Sparks Anger in Germany

#32

Post by mensetmanusman »

borissk wrote: post #20
adamsb6 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One perspective I found illuminating recently: US debt in practical terms is financed by creditors showing up for treasury auctions. The biggest two holders of our treasury bills, Japan and China, are scaling down how much they’re willing to purchase. If the world appetite for these instruments dries up we’re in serious trouble, either we default or we print money and inflation takes off again. At the same time there…

The situation with the US debt is serious, but the way you present it - as just a matter of China decision to collapse US is not correct. There are very good reasons the vast majority of the world countries, companies and rich people invests in US government debt. China, Japan and the other investors will be hard pressed to find an alternative. Cooperation with a country like China is very hard and often impossible.…

Yeah, US is long strong. Perfect geography, energy and food independence, lots of space, high tech, reverse brain drain...

Re: Plan to End E-Vehicle Subsidies Sparks Anger in Germany

#34

Post by Kon-Peki »

elzbardico wrote: post #22

The problem with e-vehicle subsidies is that for some reason we as society decided that an electrical car should also be a luxury car with insane and impractical acceleration, humungous range numbers and all kind of creature conforts and aesthetical fru-fru you can imagine. It doesn't even matter if people don't get rid of their petrol boxes, as long as they are kept as a second car for the very rare long-distance tr…

People don't buy ICE cars because they have an ICE. They buy them because they meet (perceived) needs, styling, and like 1000 other reasons.

Take any EV on the market and ask if people would buy it for close to that price if it had an ICE. For the vast majority (not all), the answer is just plain no.

Build the cars that people want, that just happen to be EV.

Re: Plan to End E-Vehicle Subsidies Sparks Anger in Germany

#35

Post by sericmotomoto »

I don't understand the current news and the pointless debate. Germans knew this at the beginning of the year, if not even earlier. And there is no anger. None. Four out of a hundred people are angry about it while a majority wouldn't have gone for an EV anyway.

A lot were thinking about buying a hybrid but the general population believes that the minute enough people have EVs, parts will start to break "in series" so that the manufacturers can increase profits.

Yes, there are articles and bits on TV and the internet about how maintenance costs of EVs are up to a third lower than usual but it's really hard to believe politicians and manufacturers after things like cum-ex, the wirecard and the diesel scandal.

Now, none of this talk and checking statistics will result in anything but more distrust into authorities, the industry or the media, that is, if you dive deeper than the surface and the nonsense German economists are babbling on TV.

The subsidies are probably going to return, the latest with the next Bundestag, who will then be celebrated as being on the side of the people, while also being slightly or much more right wing, either more or less openly or secretly under the hood.

This whole debate is nothing but a preparation for the next election and to elevate the "conservative" parties.

Re: Plan to End E-Vehicle Subsidies Sparks Anger in Germany

#36

Post by sneak »

elzbardico wrote: post #22

The problem with e-vehicle subsidies is that for some reason we as society decided that an electrical car should also be a luxury car with insane and impractical acceleration, humungous range numbers and all kind of creature conforts and aesthetical fru-fru you can imagine. It doesn't even matter if people don't get rid of their petrol boxes, as long as they are kept as a second car for the very rare long-distance tr…

NEVs exist and some people buy them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicle

Re: Plan to End E-Vehicle Subsidies Sparks Anger in Germany

#37

Post by thecodedmessage »

bradley13 wrote: post #3

The auto industry has a huge amount of influence in Germany. Consumers are probably less bothered - all subsidy programs have an end, and people know this. However, the auto industry claiming "woe is us, the economy will crash, because we are so important"? That's the backlash. Germany has a deficit problem. They are expecting to run a deficit of 4.25% this year, when 3% is the upper limit if there is no emergency. T…

I am in favor of deficit spending. EU countries should be allowed to do more of it. I simply don’t believe that belt-tightening is “good,” both in general and especially as fighting climate is an important cause.

Re: Plan to End E-Vehicle Subsidies Sparks Anger in Germany

#38

Post by Moldoteck »

I hope they'll invest the money in better directions like bike paths or, or, f*** fixing DB once and for all??? How come their train infra is in such a poor state? And it's not like they don't have a neighbor ranking among the best countries regarding rail infra...

Re: Plan to End E-Vehicle Subsidies Sparks Anger in Germany

#40

Post by ianburrell »

elzbardico wrote: post #22

The problem with e-vehicle subsidies is that for some reason we as society decided that an electrical car should also be a luxury car with insane and impractical acceleration, humungous range numbers and all kind of creature conforts and aesthetical fru-fru you can imagine. It doesn't even matter if people don't get rid of their petrol boxes, as long as they are kept as a second car for the very rare long-distance tr…

I read some analysis that we should be promoting plug-in hybrids rather than electric vehicles. That would spread limited batteries over more cars. A range of 50 mi would be enough for most commutes. Long drives would be covered by fossil fuels.

The result would more people using electric than current electric cars or your proposal of local electric and ICE vehicle. The question is if it is worth pushing now. It might make sense to have incentives cover plug-in hybrids and push car companies to switch existing models.

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