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How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

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Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#431

Post by throw_m239339 »

master-lincoln wrote: post #417
throw_m239339 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Mesdames et Messieurs" is inclusive. You've heard that for as long as you can remember. Oh so french was already "inclusive" then? LOL. > The median "." for example "marié.e" is also inclusive I don't care about "inclusivity", it's weasel word for intersectionalists. The "median ." isn't french language, it's unreadable when literred everywhere. "l'écriture inclusive" is a canonical exemple of cultural vandalisme…

I think you don't know what you are talking about. Intersectionality is a framework where it is believed that for systemic issues it makes sense to not look at individual axis of oppression/empowerment (race, gender, ...), but to look for the combined individual effect (or something like that, apparently there is no consensus on the details) Using "inclusive language" means that you use words to address the target au…

> I think you don't know what you are talking about.

I think I'm simply not buying into that evil ideology. I know exactly what I'm talking about, I've seen the consequences of bolshevism already. "intersectionality" is no different, same old marxist garbage.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#432

Post by aldousd666 »

I'm surprised that we got the whole way through all these comments and nobody mentioned "L'Acadamie Francais" and the French laws enforcing proper use of the language, requiring a certain percentage of broadcast media to be in acadamie-sanctioned French. In my opinion, this is the cause of the international friction with other speakers. On the other hand, I've been to Paris and as long as I open with French and ask questions to the best of my ability, parisians have been very nice about adapting to my lack of ability.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#433

Post by dghughes »

nicbou wrote: post #326
n0n0n4t0r wrote: post #318

Hello, I'm a french (non Parisian) reader, and was very surprised by the comments I read. More precisely, the near 100% percent agreement on "french are despising non native speakers, especially the Parisians". I really don't feel it this way and am so surprised. I don't have more to add since I really never thought about this. Speaking of English: I work in an international company since one year and am I the proces…

I'm not surprised. I'm from Quebec. I am more comfortable speaking English with anyone than I am speaking French around French people. They just can't get over the accent, like I'm some sort of curiosity at the zoo. There are so many YouTube videos of French people mocking us. It's not curiosity but a distinctly French superiority complex. My friends who learned French had similar struggles in France versus elsewhere…

I'm in Canada but English. Years ago a French co-worker from New Brunswick went to northern France on vacation.

He's Acadian French for those non-Canadian or non-French reading this that's different than Quebec, how? I'm not sure.

But the guy told me the people the people there were amazed by his accent. Apparently it wasn't like Quebec accent it was more old French but I guess not the slang of Quebec French? Not sure but I guess it was a hoot and he had fun.

From what I know Acadians originally emigrated from northern France area. So maybe Acadian French is closer match to Parisian standard French than Quebec French?

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#434

Post by loufe »

carlmr wrote: post #331
nicbou wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised. I'm from Quebec. I am more comfortable speaking English with anyone than I am speaking French around French people. They just can't get over the accent, like I'm some sort of curiosity at the zoo. There are so many YouTube videos of French people mocking us. It's not curiosity but a distinctly French superiority complex. My friends who learned French had similar struggles in France versus elsewhere…

Quebec French is very different though. It's like Swiss German and German, the Swiss understand the Germans, but not the other way around. It's not just the accent, it's the choice of words, the enunciation, everything.

It's more from ignorance than anything. I speak Quebec French and had little trouble being understood in France in the two times I've visited. I have folks from France, French Africa, and Haïti here at my job. It's more just ignorance about the accent than a lack of actual experience not being able to understand it. It's certainly not analagous Californian English to Shetlandish Scots, far from it.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#435

Post by loufe »

nicbou wrote: post #326
n0n0n4t0r wrote: post #318

Hello, I'm a french (non Parisian) reader, and was very surprised by the comments I read. More precisely, the near 100% percent agreement on "french are despising non native speakers, especially the Parisians". I really don't feel it this way and am so surprised. I don't have more to add since I really never thought about this. Speaking of English: I work in an international company since one year and am I the proces…

I'm not surprised. I'm from Quebec. I am more comfortable speaking English with anyone than I am speaking French around French people. They just can't get over the accent, like I'm some sort of curiosity at the zoo. There are so many YouTube videos of French people mocking us. It's not curiosity but a distinctly French superiority complex. My friends who learned French had similar struggles in France versus elsewhere…

There are obviously going to be some cases of that. I remember hearing through a friend that their university roommate from France dropped a class at UQAM because they couldn't take their lecturer's accent seriously. You have elitist people elsewhere.

When visiting France I had one experience where I felt like I was a zoo animal, like that. Walking around a public site a woman got very excited like she found the answer to a tricky riddle and yelled "Québec, Québec" at me. She was so sweet though and it was harmless so I didn't take it even the slightest bit poorly.

Most people in France knew better than to make a stink about it. I talked with plenty of people and occaisionally it popped up but more as a passing curiosity, I didn't feel like it wasn't outside of natural curiosity. Things like "pas pire" raised eyebrows "stationner mon char" rather than "parker mon auto" sometimes took people a minute to comprehend.

All to say, there are some rude people everywhere, but my own experience in French with a Québec accent was great.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#436

Post by loufe »

dghughes wrote: post #433
nicbou wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised. I'm from Quebec. I am more comfortable speaking English with anyone than I am speaking French around French people. They just can't get over the accent, like I'm some sort of curiosity at the zoo. There are so many YouTube videos of French people mocking us. It's not curiosity but a distinctly French superiority complex. My friends who learned French had similar struggles in France versus elsewhere…

I'm in Canada but English. Years ago a French co-worker from New Brunswick went to northern France on vacation. He's Acadian French for those non-Canadian or non-French reading this that's different than Quebec, how? I'm not sure. But the guy told me the people the people there were amazed by his accent. Apparently it wasn't like Quebec accent it was more old French but I guess not the slang of Quebec French? Not sur…

I would say Acadian is probably as far from France French as Québecois is, but it certainly has some fascinating qualities. They use old French words there that have changed everywhere else French is spoken (aside maybe Louisianna French).

My favourite anecdotal example (though I couldn't find any proof looking it up) is that "to kill" it's "killer".

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#437

Post by sjfjsjdjwvwvc »

alternative_a wrote: post #265
sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have been piled on a lot already in this thread but let me add my 2 cents: - you don’t have to be particularly careful about pickpockets anywhere in Europe, at least not more than anywhere else in the world. - you always get free tapwater in restaurants if you ask for it anywhere in Europe, also most waiters are also generally pleasant (of course there can be unpleasant people anywhere) - not sure about the tax t…

This is all true. You also can ask for ice with your coke. This will endear you with the wait staff as they can not resist snickering and muttering “American ..”

In the US I always had to specifically ask to not have ice in my drinks.

That was one thing I could never wrap my head around.

The other thing was the extreme use of AC. I can understand AC to an extent, but they were making it so cold I had to bring extra clothes just to go in the supermarket for example - what the heck?!

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#438

Post by ecef9-8c0f-4374 »

n0n0n4t0r wrote: post #318

Hello, I'm a french (non Parisian) reader, and was very surprised by the comments I read. More precisely, the near 100% percent agreement on "french are despising non native speakers, especially the Parisians". I really don't feel it this way and am so surprised. I don't have more to add since I really never thought about this. Speaking of English: I work in an international company since one year and am I the proces…

I work at an international English speaking company. We all speak English. I even talk to my colleges in the office English and we are not from/in an English speaking country.

Then there is our French site in Paris. You write them a mail in English, they will answer in French. You chat them up in English they will answer in French. They will hijack a group chat with +4000 people and just start writing in French. no f** given. We wanted a English speaking technician on site. We got a choice. We can get a person who speaks English or someone with technical skills, but not both. My experience is limited, but I understand where this stereotype is coming from.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#439

Post by sjfjsjdjwvwvc »

eloisant wrote: post #332
sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have been piled on a lot already in this thread but let me add my 2 cents: - you don’t have to be particularly careful about pickpockets anywhere in Europe, at least not more than anywhere else in the world. - you always get free tapwater in restaurants if you ask for it anywhere in Europe, also most waiters are also generally pleasant (of course there can be unpleasant people anywhere) - not sure about the tax t…

The thing about Europe is that it's large and diverse, you can't generalize by saying "in Europe". There are a lot of pickpockets in Paris, I've never been victim of it but I've witnessed it several time. Never saw that in the 5 years I lived in Tokyo or the 3 years I lived in SF. You always get free tapwater in France (that's the law) but not in Poland. I agree in that I would recommend anyone to visit Europe - even…

You are totally right. It would have made my response much more complicated to include all the differences though.

I would still argue all I wrote above applies generally to all countries in the EU. Could not reproduce your tapwater experience in Poland so ymmv

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#440

Post by nervousvarun »

tkiolp4 wrote: post #372
n0n0n4t0r wrote: post #318

Hello, I'm a french (non Parisian) reader, and was very surprised by the comments I read. More precisely, the near 100% percent agreement on "french are despising non native speakers, especially the Parisians". I really don't feel it this way and am so surprised. I don't have more to add since I really never thought about this. Speaking of English: I work in an international company since one year and am I the proces…

As a non native English speaker, the hardest to understand are people from England. The easiest to understand are people from the NL. The most comfortable to work with: germans, italians, spaniards… since they make the same grammar mistakes I make (so we all understand our mistakes)

American here...always thought the NL/Dutch accent was weirdly the most American-like accent? Which I assume is universally fairly easy to understand because of all the media content? I've been around Dutch natives before where it took surprisingly long before realizing they weren't from the US.

In my opinion the Scottish accent is the most difficult accent to understand.

"Introduced" the Scottish accent via Youtube to some Mexican co-workers who are fluent English speakers and they freaked out. Will never forget one saying "WTF is this? How can this possibly be real?". Guy generally thought it was some sort of fake prank way of speaking and couldn't grasp that people actually spoke like that.

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