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How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

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Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#371

Post by highwayman47 »

n0n0n4t0r wrote: post #318

Hello, I'm a french (non Parisian) reader, and was very surprised by the comments I read. More precisely, the near 100% percent agreement on "french are despising non native speakers, especially the Parisians". I really don't feel it this way and am so surprised. I don't have more to add since I really never thought about this. Speaking of English: I work in an international company since one year and am I the proces…

People who lack achievement in life feel joy when it appears as if Europe is being outwitted.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#372

Post by tkiolp4 »

n0n0n4t0r wrote: post #318

Hello, I'm a french (non Parisian) reader, and was very surprised by the comments I read. More precisely, the near 100% percent agreement on "french are despising non native speakers, especially the Parisians". I really don't feel it this way and am so surprised. I don't have more to add since I really never thought about this. Speaking of English: I work in an international company since one year and am I the proces…

As a non native English speaker, the hardest to understand are people from England. The easiest to understand are people from the NL. The most comfortable to work with: germans, italians, spaniards… since they make the same grammar mistakes I make (so we all understand our mistakes)

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#373

Post by sjducb »

Raidion wrote: post #252
adev_ wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For most people it's their 3rd or 4th or 5th language, and they were always so full of joy and happiness than I was trying my best. I think this is currently pretty typical in any language. In my experience, Non-native speakers are much more resilient to strong accents and broken grammar. Probably because they passed themselves by this step. I worked in a research laboratory with >100 nationalities: It was extremel…

I was (at one point) fairly conversational in French by US standards (was taking 300 level French conversation classes). Did a fairly long trip in France, using as much French as I could. The speed of native French speakers meant comprehension was hard but manageable, and they seemed (almost intentionally at times), unable to make anything but what I would consider "travel French" work. I was fairly discouraged. I th…

Yea it’s very rare to find a French person who will slow down or repeat things to help you understand.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#374

Post by baby »

michaelscott wrote: post #369
n0n0n4t0r wrote: post #318

Hello, I'm a french (non Parisian) reader, and was very surprised by the comments I read. More precisely, the near 100% percent agreement on "french are despising non native speakers, especially the Parisians". I really don't feel it this way and am so surprised. I don't have more to add since I really never thought about this. Speaking of English: I work in an international company since one year and am I the proces…

Fwiw my own experience in France, even in Paris, was mixed. A number of people refused to speak French with me (although my French was terrible, it's true), while others were either highly encouraging and complimentary, or were content to at least try and speak with me. I've never encountered anyone overtly rude. I realised the "refusing to understand" attitude in French is not out of malice, but simply because the s…

I have one theory: Americans are much more social than French people and expect the French to be as receptive as them to small talk with strangers. But we don’t talk to strangers in France. We value our intimacy bubble and when someone talks to us out of nowhere we feel threatened. There are scripted scenarios for when strangers can interact: saying hi in the elevator is one example (and usually it doesn’t go further). Even the language with its formal pronoun is meant to add distance between you and people you don’t know.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#375

Post by watwut »

hnarn wrote: post #314
quickthrower2 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Swearing in foreign language is just a word woth another meaning. I don't think so. Swear word is a swear word. It feels just as taboo to me.

That’s just partly true. While non-native speakers obviously recognize that something is a swear word, without immersion it’s often hard to gauge how it will be perceived by native speakers, simply because you don’t meet many, or any, to get reactions from. I’m a non native speaker and it wasn’t until University when I met actual Americans that I realized my swearing could be ear-curling from time to time — I simply…

For me, it is not so much that I am not aware. I am aware.

But, when you swear in my language, I am bothered by it. It feels rude. Swearing in foreign language does not bother me at all. It does not feel rude.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#376

Post by baby »

n0n0n4t0r wrote: post #361
nicbou wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not surprised. I'm from Quebec. I am more comfortable speaking English with anyone than I am speaking French around French people. They just can't get over the accent, like I'm some sort of curiosity at the zoo. There are so many YouTube videos of French people mocking us. It's not curiosity but a distinctly French superiority complex. My friends who learned French had similar struggles in France versus elsewhere…

Now that you say it: some decades ago there was a racist tendency in France where people where having fun of others accent. They where having fun of the southern marseillais accent, but also of the northern ch'ti accent, they also had extra fun of African or Quebec's accent indeed. I, as a child, did imitated those accent for fun. I now regret it, bit it's still in the roots of a lot of people. I sometimes fear that…

^ this. French people make fun of every accents. Racism and discrimination is about what society deem acceptable and what minorities or weaker communities we find OK to mistreat. I’d say discrimination in France is much worse than in America.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#377

Post by baby »

mhkane wrote: post #155

[Commenting as an HN member born and raised in Côte d'Ivoire] Quite cool to see this topic trending! Some additional context: Two popular music genres that popularized nouchi in Côte d'Ivoire and then France are "Zouglou" (1990s) and "Coupé-Décalé" (2000-2010s). Both are past their primes but it's interesting to watch now the diffusion process into the French culture. In 2019, a few nouchi words were added to the Lar…

You can’t write that without dropping some youtube links

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#378

Post by JPLeRouzic »

Raidion wrote: post #252
adev_ wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For most people it's their 3rd or 4th or 5th language, and they were always so full of joy and happiness than I was trying my best. I think this is currently pretty typical in any language. In my experience, Non-native speakers are much more resilient to strong accents and broken grammar. Probably because they passed themselves by this step. I worked in a research laboratory with >100 nationalities: It was extremel…

I was (at one point) fairly conversational in French by US standards (was taking 300 level French conversation classes). Did a fairly long trip in France, using as much French as I could. The speed of native French speakers meant comprehension was hard but manageable, and they seemed (almost intentionally at times), unable to make anything but what I would consider "travel French" work. I was fairly discouraged. I th…

I am French, the oral French is very different from what is taught in books. There are a lot of transformations like 'je' to 'che' or 'il' to 'i' (from a French perspective). Also, many liaisons between words are pronounced but others are not, sometimes astonishingly to me, a guy born a long time ago in Brittany.

And young people learn to speak very quickly when they go to primary school (I don't know why).

Also there are lots of invented words by each generation like "wish" that you are ignorant if are not 10 years old.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#379

Post by darkwater »

tux3 wrote: post #47
nequo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reverse? Do you mind sharing a couple examples? I’m not a French speaker and this sounds intriguing to me.

French has "verlan", which is when you swap some of the syllables of a word to give it a slang or "street" vibe. The world "verlan" itself is verlan for "envers" ("in reverse")

TIL and this clicks a lot with Italian slang in the town I growth where we did exactly this as early teenagers 30 years ago.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#380

Post by dukeyukey »

n0n0n4t0r wrote: post #318

Hello, I'm a french (non Parisian) reader, and was very surprised by the comments I read. More precisely, the near 100% percent agreement on "french are despising non native speakers, especially the Parisians". I really don't feel it this way and am so surprised. I don't have more to add since I really never thought about this. Speaking of English: I work in an international company since one year and am I the proces…

So I'm British, work for a half-French company and have been to Paris quite a bit.

There's a recurring steotype that the French, and Parisians in particular, are dismissive of foreigners attempts to speak French if they aren't perfect, but it's not been my experience. My French coworkers are all cool of course, but even the poor baristas in Paris trying to understand my broken coffee order just tanked it and made an effort.

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