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How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

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Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#231

Post by unethical_ban »

Dalewyn wrote: post #207
adev_ wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For most people it's their 3rd or 4th or 5th language, and they were always so full of joy and happiness than I was trying my best. I think this is currently pretty typical in any language. In my experience, Non-native speakers are much more resilient to strong accents and broken grammar. Probably because they passed themselves by this step. I worked in a research laboratory with >100 nationalities: It was extremel…

>"Globish English" Yes yes. I English speak very easy. I English hear too very easy. Easy understand. Can talk each other good just simple words. English very good. *Ahem* Basically, the built-in error correction functionality in English is bloody phenomenal . Literally anyone with a passing understanding and skill in English can use it to communicate effectively. This feature is seldom seen in most other languages l…

I'll take a guess. It's been a while since I've looked for ally at another language. But English has fewer cases of verbs, and a more rigid sentence structure.

We have more special cases of past tense verbs and weird pronunciation, but I think it's easier to duck up and still make sense in English? Maybe.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#232

Post by cmrdporcupine »

lukev wrote: post #225
Dalewyn wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Globish English" Yes yes. I English speak very easy. I English hear too very easy. Easy understand. Can talk each other good just simple words. English very good. *Ahem* Basically, the built-in error correction functionality in English is bloody phenomenal . Literally anyone with a passing understanding and skill in English can use it to communicate effectively. This feature is seldom seen in most other languages l…

You are are literally describing a "lingua franca" here. And there's no evidence that English is special in it's ability serve as a lingua franca. In previous eras, other languages held this role (e.g, French, hence the term "lingua franca"). The dominance of English can be far more certainly attributed to the geopolitical dominance of english-speaking nations...

Agree with your main point, but Lingua Franca doesn't refer to French but to "Mediterranean Lingua Franca", an actual trade language of its own which was a mix of a bunch of things. It had that name because it was "the language of the Frankish" (traders) but what they (eastern sea/Muslim traders) meant by "Franks" was any western European.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Lingua_Franca

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#233

Post by Naijoko »

passwordoops wrote: post #64
dudul wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

French people always get criticized for not understanding foreigners' broken French. It is not out of malice. It is because it actually is very hard to understand broken French. A lot of very different words sound similar. A very simple grammatical mistake can completely change the meaning of a sentence. And yeah, it's probably kind of the same in English, but French is not the linga franca English is today (see what…

> People weren't correcting you to mock you. They wanted to understand and probably help you I'm (an anglophone) from Quebec and worked in Europe for a while. Parisians totally mock people not speaking Parisian French. They're even open and extraordinarily condescending about it. The rest of the country is cool and generally helpful

I am French .. and yes people in Paris are rude. Thats the running joke in France that nobody likes them. If the dont work there they invade the rest of france and remember us how annoying they are. And yes the rest of France is awesome and totaly helpfull and nice to strangers.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#234

Post by junofan »

lukev wrote: post #225
Dalewyn wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Globish English" Yes yes. I English speak very easy. I English hear too very easy. Easy understand. Can talk each other good just simple words. English very good. *Ahem* Basically, the built-in error correction functionality in English is bloody phenomenal . Literally anyone with a passing understanding and skill in English can use it to communicate effectively. This feature is seldom seen in most other languages l…

You are are literally describing a "lingua franca" here. And there's no evidence that English is special in it's ability serve as a lingua franca. In previous eras, other languages held this role (e.g, French, hence the term "lingua franca"). The dominance of English can be far more certainly attributed to the geopolitical dominance of english-speaking nations...

What evidence are you looking for? No despot on Earth has managed to stamp it out, unlike countless other languages. You can say things like lingua franca and everyone knows what you’re talking about. There aren’t any pronouns that depend on social status. It’s got a phonetic alphabet. It’s just a natural choice for commerce and knowledge-sharing.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#235

Post by hackernewds »

dudul wrote: post #17
grecy wrote: post #11

Learning French while exploring West Africa was enormously good fun. For most people it's their 3rd or 4th or 5th language, and they were always so full of joy and happiness than I was trying my best. Nobody ever corrected my pronunciation or criticized me for my bad grammar and lack of vocabulary. (Cough, France, Cough). Thanks to all the encouragement and positivity I picked it up pretty quickly, and thoroughly enj…

French people always get criticized for not understanding foreigners' broken French. It is not out of malice. It is because it actually is very hard to understand broken French. A lot of very different words sound similar. A very simple grammatical mistake can completely change the meaning of a sentence. And yeah, it's probably kind of the same in English, but French is not the linga franca English is today (see what…

> French people alvways get criticized for not understanding foreigners' broken French.

Travel most other countries, and you will notice that's not why French people get criticized by foreigners that experience the treatment.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#236

Post by lukev »

junofan wrote: post #234
lukev wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are are literally describing a "lingua franca" here. And there's no evidence that English is special in it's ability serve as a lingua franca. In previous eras, other languages held this role (e.g, French, hence the term "lingua franca"). The dominance of English can be far more certainly attributed to the geopolitical dominance of english-speaking nations...

What evidence are you looking for? No despot on Earth has managed to stamp it out, unlike countless other languages. You can say things like lingua franca and everyone knows what you’re talking about. There aren’t any pronouns that depend on social status. It’s got a phonetic alphabet. It’s just a natural choice for commerce and knowledge-sharing.

Evidence? I was the one asking for evidence. I question the (very dubious) claim in the post I was responding to, that English is inherently suited to a role as a lingua franca.

Also, separately, your counterclaims are kind of... untrue? None of them are true of (e.g.) Mandarin which definitely served as a lingua franca for the ancient far east.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#237

Post by csomar »

jimmaswell wrote: post #92
Swizec wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had extraordinary luck with broken French in France. If you start in French and do your best, a lot of people suddenly speak fluent English. Especially in metro areas. But the experience does not compare to traveling with my partner who speaks fluent zero-accent French. Paris turns into a different much nicer city when you pair with a native speaker. That said, you’ll never get the level of service you see in US…

Europe as a whole has always come off as unpleasant to visit as an American, from what I've read online such as this thread. In no American city I've been to do you have to be so vigilant for pickpockets as you apparently do in European cities, and virtually no one in America will complain about your accent or grammar. We have free water at restaurants, and the staff won't treat you like a mooch for asking about it;…

Have you actually been to Europe? Paris/London has a few pickpockets problem but nothing come close to the violence in the states. And you can’t win when it comes to food. Most US food is garbage unless you are paying top dollars.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#238

Post by Naijoko »

Dalewyn wrote: post #207
adev_ wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For most people it's their 3rd or 4th or 5th language, and they were always so full of joy and happiness than I was trying my best. I think this is currently pretty typical in any language. In my experience, Non-native speakers are much more resilient to strong accents and broken grammar. Probably because they passed themselves by this step. I worked in a research laboratory with >100 nationalities: It was extremel…

>"Globish English" Yes yes. I English speak very easy. I English hear too very easy. Easy understand. Can talk each other good just simple words. English very good. *Ahem* Basically, the built-in error correction functionality in English is bloody phenomenal . Literally anyone with a passing understanding and skill in English can use it to communicate effectively. This feature is seldom seen in most other languages l…

many languages have this feature. For example Russian or German. You can put in the words, with most words missing, in any order and somehow someone will get it. France cant do this. Why... I dont know why. Maybe because the are more desciptive.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#239

Post by bubblematrix »

Veuxdo wrote: post #216
Dalewyn wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Globish English" Yes yes. I English speak very easy. I English hear too very easy. Easy understand. Can talk each other good just simple words. English very good. *Ahem* Basically, the built-in error correction functionality in English is bloody phenomenal . Literally anyone with a passing understanding and skill in English can use it to communicate effectively. This feature is seldom seen in most other languages l…

> This feature is seldom seen in most other languages let alone lingua francas. Source? On it's face this doesn't sound plausible...

Source? How does it not sound plausible?

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#240

Post by Naijoko »

Swizec wrote: post #88
dataflow wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> French people always get criticized for not understanding foreigners' broken French The main criticism I've heard is kind of the opposite - that they dislike foreigners not trying to speak French, and just starting communication in English. If both of these are true then I guess that puts foreigners in a tough place where they're damned if they try and damned if they don't?

I’ve had extraordinary luck with broken French in France. If you start in French and do your best, a lot of people suddenly speak fluent English. Especially in metro areas. But the experience does not compare to traveling with my partner who speaks fluent zero-accent French. Paris turns into a different much nicer city when you pair with a native speaker. That said, you’ll never get the level of service you see in US…

hahaha .. I have to lough hard. That is so True. Many people in paris speak english but the only way to get them to speak it is by speaking bad french. And they hate you for that.
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