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Chimera Linux

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Re: Chimera Linux

#181

Post by LeFantome »

q66 wrote: post #176
LeFantome wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, both Linus and RMS have attracted their share of controversy. In the case of Linus, while you may not always agree with him, there seems to be broader support for his engineering choices. He has multiple projects that have dominated their spaces on their own merits. Whatever you think of Stallman, there is no denying his historical contribution. For myself, I am more bothered by RMS. Although I know Chimera has…

I generally just don't want to see anybody being attacked for the work they do; I'm fine with people criticizing RMS, since that's generally because of his views that deserve to be condemned, but I wish to see no hostility towards maintainers of GNU projects or systemd the GNU codebases may have their issues (but not always; there are some very high quality ones), but that's still not a reason for personal attacks, a…

Amen to that and thank you for the response.

I do not really mean to criticize anybody myself. My venting is more about GNU advocates criticizing others, campaigning against collaboration, or trying to lay claim to vast swaths of software they did not write. Although I am very pro-Open Source, it also bothers me when too much abuse is heaped on commercial vendors that do contribute lots of code ( even code I don’t love ). At least, I prefer the complaining stayed technical.

Thank you again for your contributions. I hope I continue to enjoy your choices. Good luck either way.

Re: Chimera Linux

#182

Post by eternityforest »

9dev wrote: post #162
Hendrikto wrote: post #129

Even though I do not fully agree, I think this project has one of the most mature, nuanced, and balanced takes on systemd I have seen yet [0]. [0]: https://chimera-linux.org/docs/faq#what-is-the-projects-take...

A Bit OT, but is there something like the contrary to this - a distro actually fully embracing systemd components? I have spent lots of time with Linux servers. I’m also very pragmatic. systemd has made lots of stuff easier, is highly configurable, maintained and regularly updated, and properly standardised. I acknowledge people who have a need to feel in control or something, but I just want reliable computers that…

That sounds like Ubuntu Core. I use regular Ubuntu, but it looks like they really want to go all snap all the time, so I expect that in a few years I'll probably be using an all snap system

Snap might not be a part of systemd, but it is in the same general category of ultra standardized system software.

Re: Chimera Linux

#183

Post by kovac »

eternityforest wrote: post #7

It's really cool, but I get worried anytime I see something that seems to want to be a user friendly, mainstream distro, after seeing how hard Manjaro tried with the whole "Bring simplicity to the masses" stuff and how many issues they still have. Is this an experimental or hobby distro or does it intend to be something grandma can use? If I had to choose this or BSD, it looks like I'd very strongly considering this…

I think user-friendliness of non-mainstream software is an acquired taste. While we are drawn to Linux and other off-road software for varying reasons, I doubt it's because we were looking out for a user-friendly OS. So, I personally don't expect any Linux distribution to appeal to the masses. Mainstream doesn't need operating systems. They just need a screen with large app icons for the few apps they use.

Re: Chimera Linux

#184

Post by eternityforest »

kovac wrote: post #183
eternityforest wrote: post #7

It's really cool, but I get worried anytime I see something that seems to want to be a user friendly, mainstream distro, after seeing how hard Manjaro tried with the whole "Bring simplicity to the masses" stuff and how many issues they still have. Is this an experimental or hobby distro or does it intend to be something grandma can use? If I had to choose this or BSD, it looks like I'd very strongly considering this…

I think user-friendliness of non-mainstream software is an acquired taste. While we are drawn to Linux and other off-road software for varying reasons, I doubt it's because we were looking out for a user-friendly OS. So, I personally don't expect any Linux distribution to appeal to the masses. Mainstream doesn't need operating systems. They just need a screen with large app icons for the few apps they use.

There's a lot of reasons people who are a little more into mainstream tech would want Linux.

If you do embedded, those systems often run Linux, and it appeals to anyone who likes the idea of one standard platform for everything, so you might as well use it on the desktop. Especially with RasPi work, which is similar enough to Ubuntu that it really does seem more or less unified.

It's also free, and can run on old computers.

It doesn't have any commerical incentives to leave out features, so a large linux distro can support every protocol, file format, and filesystem with no hacking and fussing and buying expensive compatibility apps.

It supports lots of old windows stuff via WINE.

Re: Chimera Linux

#185

Post by musicale »

pjmlp wrote: post #125
musicale wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some good examples of where a BSD userland is much better than GNU userland? One thing that possibly comes to mind for me is macOS' launchd, which doesn't seem to give me the same headaches as systemd even though they're kind of the same thing (see also: windows services manager.) Another is/was clang/llvm vs. gcc, but gcc seems to have improved since clang originally came out. And clang is readily available…

HP-UX Vaults predate BSD jails, IBM ones on their mainframe and micros even more so.

Interesting - I'm not familiar with HP-UX vaults - did they ever catch on in other Unix versions, and did they predate zones in Solaris? How do they compare to Linux containers?

That doesn't refute my statement that BSD pioneered containers with jails, as jails were widely used across multiple BSD versions (though they're oddly missing on macOS) before Linux's container architecture existed.

I had thought IBM did VMs rather than OS-level virtualization (wasn't Gene Amdahl the one who came up with the rules for classically virtualizable architectures?) but I'm not particularly familiar with IBM systems (though I have looked at the 360 instruction set, which has amazingly lasted for more than 50 years.)

Re: Chimera Linux

#186

Post by musicale »

musicale wrote: post #80
akosoaaafjdr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll add that most anti-GNU people I know in the BSD space and related projects are not at all against GNU politically speaking or it's ideals or the free software movement. We mostly think that a variety of terrible technical decisions have been made and allowed to metastisize over the years, and that they are largely unfixable so long as Linux remains an operating system devoted primarily to ease of use, popularity…

What are some good examples of where a BSD userland is much better than GNU userland? One thing that possibly comes to mind for me is macOS' launchd, which doesn't seem to give me the same headaches as systemd even though they're kind of the same thing (see also: windows services manager.) Another is/was clang/llvm vs. gcc, but gcc seems to have improved since clang originally came out. And clang is readily available…

Instead of disagreeing semi-anonymously with some of my personal experience/opinions, is anyone interested in actually answering my question?

Re: Chimera Linux

#187

Post by Naijoko »

pjmlp wrote: post #122
simonh wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh sure, I still remember getting my first 1/4” tape of the GNU tools source code through the post. This is why it’s so hilarious to me when the kids nowadays complain that MacOS has different command line tools to Linux. “Why can’t they just use GNU?”. Get off my lawn! ;)

Also why when on a macOS system I never felt the urge to install Homebrew or something similar, it is just another UNIX flavour.

isnt the macos system called NOT UNIX ? ^.^

Re: Chimera Linux

#188

Post by musicale »

petre wrote: post #96
musicale wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some good examples of where a BSD userland is much better than GNU userland? One thing that possibly comes to mind for me is macOS' launchd, which doesn't seem to give me the same headaches as systemd even though they're kind of the same thing (see also: windows services manager.) Another is/was clang/llvm vs. gcc, but gcc seems to have improved since clang originally came out. And clang is readily available…

> One thing that possibly comes to mind for me is macOS' launchd, which doesn't seem to give me the same headaches as systemd even though they're kind of the same thing (see also: windows services manager.) XML definitions for service startup and inconsistent switches. Launchd is worse than systemd in those regards. I was quite happy to let go of my work iMac and do development on Linux.

Regarding XML, I greatly prefer (vs. XML or JSON) classic NeXT-style property lists, though sadly Apple deprecated those (GNUstep did not however.) In practice I tend to use an editor.

YMMV - as I mentioned, I think launchd, systemd, and windows service manager are in a similar space; it could be I just encountered launchd first, so I'm more comfortable with it. Also the transition to systemd on Linux (e.g. rc files to upstart to systemd) felt more jarring than the macOS launchd transition.

Re: Chimera Linux

#189

Post by NewJazz »

eternityforest wrote: post #182
9dev wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Bit OT, but is there something like the contrary to this - a distro actually fully embracing systemd components? I have spent lots of time with Linux servers. I’m also very pragmatic. systemd has made lots of stuff easier, is highly configurable, maintained and regularly updated, and properly standardised. I acknowledge people who have a need to feel in control or something, but I just want reliable computers that…

That sounds like Ubuntu Core. I use regular Ubuntu, but it looks like they really want to go all snap all the time, so I expect that in a few years I'll probably be using an all snap system Snap might not be a part of systemd, but it is in the same general category of ultra standardized system software.

Have they addressed any of the complaints about Snap auto-updating and not being able to use 3rd party repositories?

Re: Chimera Linux

#190

Post by musicale »

LeFantome wrote: post #39
NewJazz wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Linux installs are going to be using Bionic libc, so still dubious to call glibc "standard". This is Linux. There is no standard. OpenWRT used uClibc until 2019.

I am a fan of Chimera Linux and both Alpine and Void also use MUSL. But there is no denying that Glibc is the de facto standard on Linux Desktops and many desktop applications assume it. To me, that is a bad thing and we agree that diversity should be possible. We do not agree that “most Linux installs are going to be using Bionic”. Android uses the Linux kernel but it is not what people mean when they say “Linux”. T…

> To me, that is a bad thing and we agree that diversity should be possible.

I too would like the standard C library to be an actual standard with multiple compliant and compatible implementations, and I'd like apps to work correctly across multiple implementations.

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