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How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

nytimes.com

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Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#221

Post by jaza »

blackshaw wrote: post #24
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #6

> Members of the French Academy, the 17th-century institution that publishes an official dictionary of the French language, have been working on the same edition for the past 40 years. This is nonsense. The French Academy is adding new words to the dictionary every year. The whole article is weak to say the least. Of course, the French spoken abroad is changed by the local influences. This is the sam case as with any…

> we are the champions of how to write something easy most difficultly, and crank weirdness of pronunciation to 100 Wurs than Inglish? I hav my dowts.

Where do you think the weirdest bits of the English language came from?

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#222

Post by bongodongobob »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #191
dudul wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

French people always get criticized for not understanding foreigners' broken French. It is not out of malice. It is because it actually is very hard to understand broken French. A lot of very different words sound similar. A very simple grammatical mistake can completely change the meaning of a sentence. And yeah, it's probably kind of the same in English, but French is not the linga franca English is today (see what…

I remember being at a bar in the 18th, and asking for "L'Eau". "Quoi?" "L'eau sil vous plait?" ..... long pause ..... I motion to picking up a glass and drinking it ..... "Ahhhh! DE L'eau!" I was like.... Dude... come the fuck on.

You might be overthinking a friendly ribbing. I had a similar interaction in Italy and he was just trying to help and I did find it helpful.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#223

Post by ttoinou »

seszett wrote: post #69
playingalong wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They likely meant non-standard word order in a sentence. Not reading the words backwards.

No, it's speaking the word backwards, syllable-wise. L'envers becomes verlan, femme becomes meuf, fête teuf, louche is chelou and merci is cimer, for the most common, everyday words. It can even go further, with Arabe becoming Beur which itself gets verlanised into Rebeu. Or meuf, femeu.

I thought Beur was from Beurre and its yellow color

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#224

Post by vlovich123 »

OnlyMortal wrote: post #86
passwordoops wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People weren't correcting you to mock you. They wanted to understand and probably help you I'm (an anglophone) from Quebec and worked in Europe for a while. Parisians totally mock people not speaking Parisian French. They're even open and extraordinarily condescending about it. The rest of the country is cool and generally helpful

I met French speaking Quebecois in Paris. They were complaining the Parisians didn’t understand them. They weren’t enamoured to France.

All my teachers in French throughout middle school and university (Canada) were France French. In college, my first TA was Quebecois French & it took me a few classes before I actually started understanding what she was saying. It’s a very difficult accent and I don’t think it’s a snobbery thing - just requires extended exposure. By comparison Quebecois seem to more easily understand France French whether it’s because there’s more exposure through media or whatnot.

There’s a similar effect in the maritime with English btw - there’s plenty of North American, Australian, New Zealand, Irish, Scottish etc accents that can be difficult to understand even though they are native speakers.

To me, taking offense that someone doesn’t understand your accent is similar to someone who makes fun of someone else for their accent. It says more about you than the other person.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#225

Post by lukev »

Dalewyn wrote: post #207
adev_ wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For most people it's their 3rd or 4th or 5th language, and they were always so full of joy and happiness than I was trying my best. I think this is currently pretty typical in any language. In my experience, Non-native speakers are much more resilient to strong accents and broken grammar. Probably because they passed themselves by this step. I worked in a research laboratory with >100 nationalities: It was extremel…

>"Globish English" Yes yes. I English speak very easy. I English hear too very easy. Easy understand. Can talk each other good just simple words. English very good. *Ahem* Basically, the built-in error correction functionality in English is bloody phenomenal . Literally anyone with a passing understanding and skill in English can use it to communicate effectively. This feature is seldom seen in most other languages l…

You are are literally describing a "lingua franca" here.

And there's no evidence that English is special in it's ability serve as a lingua franca. In previous eras, other languages held this role (e.g, French, hence the term "lingua franca").

The dominance of English can be far more certainly attributed to the geopolitical dominance of english-speaking nations...

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#226

Post by Auracle »

Daishiman wrote: post #117
jimmaswell wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe as a whole has always come off as unpleasant to visit as an American, from what I've read online such as this thread. In no American city I've been to do you have to be so vigilant for pickpockets as you apparently do in European cities, and virtually no one in America will complain about your accent or grammar. We have free water at restaurants, and the staff won't treat you like a mooch for asking about it;…

I'm sorry but the staff at American restaurants is extremely overbearing and come across as endlessly annoying. I can ask for water or extra dishes if I need them. The necessity for tips is visible from a mile away.

When visiting Europe I've literally had to get up and find my waitress after not seeing her for 40+ minutes. I'll take tip culture any day...in sit down restaurants, at least.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#227

Post by ssnistfajen »

throwme_123 wrote: post #193
ssnistfajen wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are describing is radicalization. People who are doing fine don't get easily radicalized. Why are they being radicalized then? Because they are not doing fine. Why are they not doing fine? Because of the colonial legacy and France supporting the status quo by propping up corrupt oligarchs/dictators in many parts of Francophone Africa. By instantly jumping to Russia/Wagner you are merely assisting radicalizat…

Is this parody? Of course Wagner is pushing resentment and it's working... you're proving that now.

Do you have an actual argument or are you too comfortable with always invoking a boogeyman without assessing the situation?

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#228

Post by Apocryphon »

coldtea wrote: post #187
ekabod wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody in France is treating Quebec as a backwater colony, not even as a colony. It is all in your head. Quebec has a very good image in France.

You'd be surprised. Though I think you've misunderstood the parent's comment. THe parent doesn't literally mean that they think of Quebec as a colony. He means that they look down upon Quebec people, as if they are "ploucs" [from some backwater colony], without their French "sophistication" and accent.

It's ironic because Quebecois French might be closer to the pre-Revolutionary King's French than the speech of the sans-culottes.

https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20220829-the-royal-roots-...

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#229

Post by Apocryphon »

concordDance wrote: post #147
arcticbull wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture is always in a state of flux. It’s not sad, it just is. I’m not sad I won’t get to see Victorian London. In the narrative arc of humanity things keep getting better, not worse.

I'm not sure how common this preference is. I'm personally always sad when unique cultures diminish or disappear and this seems to be a not unusual sentiment judging by popular media. Whether this is the Cherokee or Victorian England there are valuable and interesting things and losing them is sad.

Victorian England will forever live on in Sherlock Holmes novels, Ripperana, Dickens Fairs, steampunk. There is an article about Victorian customs on the front page. It is literally one of the most overexposed, overplayed, and overused historical eras.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#230

Post by teknico »

kashunstva wrote: post #205
dudul wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

French people always get criticized for not understanding foreigners' broken French. It is not out of malice. It is because it actually is very hard to understand broken French. A lot of very different words sound similar. A very simple grammatical mistake can completely change the meaning of a sentence. And yeah, it's probably kind of the same in English, but French is not the linga franca English is today (see what…

> It is because it actually is very hard to understand broken French. Is there any evidence that French has some unique qualities that render it unusually difficult to understand when not spoken by a someone fluent in the language? I’m reasonably competent in French and if there is such a feature, I don’t see it.

You don’t? Help yourself:

https://youtu.be/t2Hxd3Emg4E

The whole channel is quite hilarious and depressing at the same time.

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