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How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

nytimes.com

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Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#181

Post by qwytw »

fknorangesite wrote: post #169
qwytw wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why you would care about the price of tap water Because I have to ask and unless I'm explicit they'll bring a 330 mL glass bottle which is extremely annoying. That forces me to drink beer all the time just to avoid that which is not exactly ideal. > eg Bulgaria The VAT there is 20% which is much higher than any place in the US.

> That forces me to drink beer all the time My opinion of American tourists is such that I can't tell if this is a joke, and I'm Canadian , ffs.

Well.. I'm European, it's only half a joke though.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#182

Post by ssnistfajen »

h1fra wrote: post #31

It's always fun to see foreigners coming to paris discovering that the french they learned at school is basically useless. Not only we use africans or arabic words, but we also speak in reverse, with noises, everything is shortened, etc.

Colloquial speech exists in every language and new learners usually aren't taught colloquial speech in a formal manner (hence their confusing upon actually interacting with speakers of that language). This isn't unique to French.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#183

Post by dfgfek »

pooper wrote: post #163
greatgib wrote: post #103

[flagged]

This video from real life lore just came out yesterday https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpWb3MTV9bg This is not about Africa but rather Haiti but I think the point stands. Why can't France give Haiti USD 21B? Or even USD 100B. It doesn't have to be in one lump sum. Would that bankrupt France? When I look up France GDP, I see 2.958 trillion USD (2021). Actually do some good in the world for once. (And make some money f…

[flagged]

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#184

Post by coldtea »

dudul wrote: post #17
grecy wrote: post #11

Learning French while exploring West Africa was enormously good fun. For most people it's their 3rd or 4th or 5th language, and they were always so full of joy and happiness than I was trying my best. Nobody ever corrected my pronunciation or criticized me for my bad grammar and lack of vocabulary. (Cough, France, Cough). Thanks to all the encouragement and positivity I picked it up pretty quickly, and thoroughly enj…

French people always get criticized for not understanding foreigners' broken French. It is not out of malice. It is because it actually is very hard to understand broken French. A lot of very different words sound similar. A very simple grammatical mistake can completely change the meaning of a sentence. And yeah, it's probably kind of the same in English, but French is not the linga franca English is today (see what…

>French people always get criticized for not understanding foreigners' broken French. It is not out of malice. It is because it actually is very hard to understand broken French.

Is it that difficult? I can understand broken French just fine as a non native speaker. For French people it looks as if it's impossible, but I don't buy it.

>People weren't correcting you to mock you. They wanted to understand and probably help you.

Judging from how indifferent and unhelpful retail workers, waiters, and such were, even when you speak perfect French or even when speaking in English in case they understand it, I doubt that's the case.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#185

Post by rockinghigh »

qwytw wrote: post #123
hardlianotion wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to parent, France is on the western side of the Mediterranean sea.

It wasn't even on the Mediterranean at the time (or rather French was spoken in the North of modern France back then). People on Mediterranean coast of France were speaking Occitan and other dialects which were more closely related to Catalan and Northern Italian (all of those were mostly eradicated during and during the century or so after the French revolution).

The eradication of Occitan and other local languages like Breton was the strongest in mid 1800s to the early 1900s. Students speaking it would be punished.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergonha

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#186

Post by ssnistfajen »

greatgib wrote: post #103

[flagged]

What you are describing is radicalization. People who are doing fine don't get easily radicalized. Why are they being radicalized then? Because they are not doing fine. Why are they not doing fine? Because of the colonial legacy and France supporting the status quo by propping up corrupt oligarchs/dictators in many parts of Francophone Africa.

By instantly jumping to Russia/Wagner you are merely assisting radicalization by further antagonizing Africans. The USA tried to pin everything that went wrong since 2016 on Russia, did it fix anything? Look at any poll for 2024 and you shall have your answer.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#187

Post by coldtea »

ekabod wrote: post #170
passwordoops wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also that Parisians treat them like a backwater colony. That really doesn't sit well with the narrative that Quebec was always an independent people who were only ever under colonial rule after the evil English came along. Oh, and there were never any issues with the natives until the Brits. Source: my grade school kids' history texts

Nobody in France is treating Quebec as a backwater colony, not even as a colony. It is all in your head. Quebec has a very good image in France.

You'd be surprised. Though I think you've misunderstood the parent's comment. THe parent doesn't literally mean that they think of Quebec as a colony.

He means that they look down upon Quebec people, as if they are "ploucs" [from some backwater colony], without their French "sophistication" and accent.

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#189

Post by coldtea »

jimmaswell wrote: post #92
Swizec wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had extraordinary luck with broken French in France. If you start in French and do your best, a lot of people suddenly speak fluent English. Especially in metro areas. But the experience does not compare to traveling with my partner who speaks fluent zero-accent French. Paris turns into a different much nicer city when you pair with a native speaker. That said, you’ll never get the level of service you see in US…

Europe as a whole has always come off as unpleasant to visit as an American, from what I've read online such as this thread. In no American city I've been to do you have to be so vigilant for pickpockets as you apparently do in European cities, and virtually no one in America will complain about your accent or grammar. We have free water at restaurants, and the staff won't treat you like a mooch for asking about it;…

[flagged]

Re: How Africans are changing French, one joke, rap and book at a time

#190

Post by frenchie123 »

dataflow wrote: post #61
dudul wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

French people always get criticized for not understanding foreigners' broken French. It is not out of malice. It is because it actually is very hard to understand broken French. A lot of very different words sound similar. A very simple grammatical mistake can completely change the meaning of a sentence. And yeah, it's probably kind of the same in English, but French is not the linga franca English is today (see what…

> French people always get criticized for not understanding foreigners' broken French The main criticism I've heard is kind of the opposite - that they dislike foreigners not trying to speak French, and just starting communication in English. If both of these are true then I guess that puts foreigners in a tough place where they're damned if they try and damned if they don't?

When I was a little kid my school took me on a trip to paris. I got lost and tried to ask for directions. The locals literally ignored me as I was begging for help. Until I finally remembered my parents talking about how the french hate anyone who doesn't speak their language and I started my plea with "I'm sorry I don't speak your beautiful language"

So yeah, they'd rather ignore a lost child than tolerate foreigners not knowing their "beautiful" language.

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