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The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

charliechaplin.com

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Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#251

Post by throwaway171223 »

lewhoo wrote: post #247
arrosenberg wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point, which you seem to have missed, is that N people can claim to be great "if only X wasn't in my way". In reality, an infinitesimally small number of people will be judged as great by history, and half of those will be largely by accident, many will not realize it, and some will only achieve it post-mortem. Therefore, logically , if someone claims to be great, they are mostly likely riding high on hubris and e…

Because that wasn't your point. You claimed it's hubris and ego because greatness is in the eye of the third-party beholder. Now you argue it is necessary that greatness must be unlikely, which is of course true but changes nothing. History of science, maybe history of progress is the history of (at that moment) unlikeliness prevailing.

[flagged]

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#252

Post by bawolff »

ryanklee wrote: post #194
lewhoo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's just ad absurdum considering we don't have straight answers when it comes to socio-political issues.

It's absolutely straightforward to uphold Democratic principles over Fascistic enterprises. People who get this wrong are simply wrong, and it's likely emotional and psychological forces that got them there, not rational, historiographic, or empirical ones. The current headwinds are a result of ill-equiped individuals being manipulated by other ill-equiped individuals.

This strikes me as begging the question.

It is always straightforward to uphold what you already believe in.

Like isnt it the famous line of the communists that communism is a historical neccesisty? I think all ideologies have something similar.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#254

Post by johnnyanmac »

lewhoo wrote: post #216
Aunche wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not every wrong assumption comes from emotion I'm not sure what you mean by that. Every assumption right or wrong comes from emotion. The problem tends to come when people let their emotions are left completely unchecked. "Bankers are taking advantage of me. My banker is an X minority. Therefore, we need to exterminate X minority" indeed has a nonzero degree of logic, but it's not the sort of reasoning 99% of peopl…

> Every assumption right or wrong comes from emotion. I disagree. Wrong assumptions are often just a conclusion of limited or false knowledge.

Well, if you remember how not every one wanted to learn in school and realize those people still "grew up", you realize how impractical it can be to make sure everyone has sufficient knowledge.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#255

Post by johnnyanmac »

throwaway171223 wrote: post #237
lewhoo wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's absolutely straightforward to uphold Democratic principles over Fascistic enterprises. That may be, but it also seems perfectly logical to claim democracy is broken because a voice of an educated person carries same weight than that of a high school dropout. All you need to do is extend this logic a bit. I think it is because of our emotions, empathy or maybe something else that we see that this "flaw" in demo…

> to claim democracy is broken because a voice of an educated person carries same weight than that of a high school dropout Is not logical. > fascism wasn't only a manipulation No successful ideology is only a manipulation. > Had fascism succeeded I doubt anyone really knows why, but the historical fact is that it didn't.

>Is not logical.

How so?

>No successful ideology is only a manipulation.

Depends on how you define success. We can say "fascism didn't succeed" but it certainly didn't blow over as a trend. Not back then, and not now.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#256

Post by vpribish »

lewhoo wrote: post #213
ryanklee wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely straightforward to uphold Democratic principles over Fascistic enterprises. People who get this wrong are simply wrong, and it's likely emotional and psychological forces that got them there, not rational, historiographic, or empirical ones. The current headwinds are a result of ill-equiped individuals being manipulated by other ill-equiped individuals.

> It's absolutely straightforward to uphold Democratic principles over Fascistic enterprises. That may be, but it also seems perfectly logical to claim democracy is broken because a voice of an educated person carries same weight than that of a high school dropout. All you need to do is extend this logic a bit. I think it is because of our emotions, empathy or maybe something else that we see that this "flaw" in demo…

I appreciate your contribution to the conversation, but have to disagree : "Had fascism succeeded" is kinda of an impossibility. it's bad at doing things and internally eats itself as soon as it gets power. Fascism is not just as if it was a choice of haircut, it's cancer

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#257

Post by fallingknife »

oddevan wrote: post #136
Geisterde wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, hello, I work here, google is down the street, as is microsoft. I can assure you they are not dust. All amazon has done is build more data centers, they havent taken some kind of hostile action towards the competition. The money was on the table, those companies didnt want to spend the time or take the risk, so amazon will gladly hoover it up.

Glad you have a job and stable employment! When I think of who Amazon has "ground into dust," it's not Microsoft and Google. It's Barnes & Noble, Borders, Waldenbooks, hundreds of thousands of small independent bookstores, small businesses that once worried about Walmart moving into the neighborhood now contending with the omnipresence of Amazon. Some of them adapt, yes. Some were going to close anyway, of course. Bu…

Amazon didn't grind anyone into dust. All they did was build a better book store. We ground them into dust by choosing to buy from Amazon.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#258

Post by lewhoo »

vpribish wrote: post #256
lewhoo wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's absolutely straightforward to uphold Democratic principles over Fascistic enterprises. That may be, but it also seems perfectly logical to claim democracy is broken because a voice of an educated person carries same weight than that of a high school dropout. All you need to do is extend this logic a bit. I think it is because of our emotions, empathy or maybe something else that we see that this "flaw" in demo…

I appreciate your contribution to the conversation, but have to disagree : "Had fascism succeeded" is kinda of an impossibility. it's bad at doing things and internally eats itself as soon as it gets power. Fascism is not just as if it was a choice of haircut, it's cancer

> "Had fascism succeeded" is kinda of an impossibility.

Depends. If you assume succeeded indefinitely then this is a trap because such a thing is impossible (can only be deemed indefinitely successful at its end at which point it cant). Fascism could've been the new feudal era with the masters and slaves clearly defined but yes, I don't think it could've lasted forever if that's what you're saying.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#259

Post by fallingknife »

gedy wrote: post #203
Geisterde wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, hello, I work here, google is down the street, as is microsoft. I can assure you they are not dust. All amazon has done is build more data centers, they havent taken some kind of hostile action towards the competition. The money was on the table, those companies didnt want to spend the time or take the risk, so amazon will gladly hoover it up.

Amazon !== AWS, I think what's being referred to is smaller retailers, not other FAANGs. My brother's store is slowly folding, largely due specifically to Amazon selling cheaper than he can purchase wholesale.

So Amazon is a more efficient business model. Why should I drive to your brother's store when I can just order it right to my door on Amazon? They have done nothing wrong here.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#260

Post by chopete3 »

hermitcrab wrote: post #236

"Greed has poisoned men's souls" Greed used to considered a sin. Now it seems to be seen as a virtue by some. It's not enough to have a Ferrari - you need to have a whole garage full. It's not enough to have a yacht - it's got to be a super yacht.

I think he is not referring to an individuals greed, for example an actor buying a few Ferrari's to satisfy their desires or a business person buying a yatch.

He is referring to political/country leaders greed. Only their greed can cause violence and bloodshed at the level he is talking about.

Ambition and greed both refer to the intense desire to achieve success. Sucess includes money, power, or status.

The difference is a major one. Greed is to achieve those for themselves at the cost of depriving others. Ambition is to do for greater good of others.

I think all the leaders(democratic,communist,fascist) understand this, and they are all likely ambitious. The path to achieve success forces them to define boundaries.

They seem to define others as their country people - during the war times. In peace times, it is their party supporters.

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