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The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

charliechaplin.com

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Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#171

Post by Aunche »

lewhoo wrote: post #104
vpribish wrote: post #88

"Don't let your mind speak louder than your heart" - I think many have this so very wrong. Is support for fascism is a sensible, logical, well-thought-out policy? No, it's a heart-felt, emotional appeal to scared, proud, paranoid, crude, brutal people (who seem to be about half of our neighbors). surely the mindful decision is empathetic, constructive, and wise - not just base.

I don't think it's so simple. Support for fascism can seem sensible and logical if you let yourself think that between you and greatness stands a minority whose sole purpose is to prevent you from becoming great. You could argue it's not emotion but a calculation coming from struggle and an easy explanation for that struggle. Not every wrong assumption comes from emotion and we have the whole history of science to pr…

> Not every wrong assumption comes from emotion

I'm not sure what you mean by that. Every assumption right or wrong comes from emotion. The problem tends to come when people let their emotions are left completely unchecked. "Bankers are taking advantage of me. My banker is an X minority. Therefore, we need to exterminate X minority" indeed has a nonzero degree of logic, but it's not the sort of reasoning 99% of people would come up with in a vacuum.

A counterpoint is that sometimes an irrational degree of emotion may be required to do extraordinary things like soldiers being brainwashed to fight even a defensive war, building a cathedral that fitting of the magnificence of god, or even a lot of cult-like startups.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#172

Post by spacebacon »

goles wrote: post #142
questinthrow wrote: post #2

I'd wager it's more like we don't think at all and feel only anger. At least online that is.

Given the amount of bad encounters I've had driving post-2020, and interacting with strangers, I think it's seeping into the real world as well. The way people act and speak in public feels noticeably different than even a few years ago, let alone 10-20. People are very short with each other now. Even more disturbing, I think I can feel the change in myself too at times.

I can relate to this point of view. The highways have been somewhat of a barometer for mental health weather.

The best thought leaders can do is not participate in the hate. Drive the speed limit, let cars out, be courteous and non reactive on the roads.

Each small good example plants a seed that won’t immediately resolve our worldly issues but will lead others to water in due time with persistence.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#173

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

Zetobal wrote: post #27
virtue3 wrote: post #22

I know a lot of people here are missing the mark - the issue here is EMPATHY not -feelings-. "We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other’s happiness - not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. " "We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness." Please take…

Empathy is not the problem everyone has empathy for their own social groups. The problem is the division between these social groups. There is no grey anymore just black and white. You either hate me or love me.

> Empathy is not the problem everyone has empathy for their own social groups. The problem is the division between these social groups.

From this I'd say limiting empathy to our social group leaves a hole where the empathy for everyone else should be - and that divisions grow in that hole.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#174

Post by [deleted] »

kdmccormick wrote: post #159
goles wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the amount of bad encounters I've had driving post-2020, and interacting with strangers, I think it's seeping into the real world as well. The way people act and speak in public feels noticeably different than even a few years ago, let alone 10-20. People are very short with each other now. Even more disturbing, I think I can feel the change in myself too at times.

Driving brings out the worst in people. You're all trying to get somewhere, you're all a danger to one another, and, critically, you can't see faces well. So, you end up receiving offenses against you as if they're personal (because you're you!) but commit offenses as if they're impersonal (because others look like cars, not human beings). Would you rudely shove youself in front of someone at the market to get the ne…

[deleted]

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#175

Post by spacebacon »

kdmccormick wrote: post #159
goles wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the amount of bad encounters I've had driving post-2020, and interacting with strangers, I think it's seeping into the real world as well. The way people act and speak in public feels noticeably different than even a few years ago, let alone 10-20. People are very short with each other now. Even more disturbing, I think I can feel the change in myself too at times.

Driving brings out the worst in people. You're all trying to get somewhere, you're all a danger to one another, and, critically, you can't see faces well. So, you end up receiving offenses against you as if they're personal (because you're you!) but commit offenses as if they're impersonal (because others look like cars, not human beings). Would you rudely shove youself in front of someone at the market to get the ne…

Yes and the others specifically look like large and aggressively styled combatants. The aesthetic of the automobile and the embodiment of that automobiles essence clearly has an influence within the sensitive and suggestible human experience. Design drives behavior.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#176

Post by switch007 »

goles wrote: post #142
questinthrow wrote: post #2

I'd wager it's more like we don't think at all and feel only anger. At least online that is.

Given the amount of bad encounters I've had driving post-2020, and interacting with strangers, I think it's seeping into the real world as well. The way people act and speak in public feels noticeably different than even a few years ago, let alone 10-20. People are very short with each other now. Even more disturbing, I think I can feel the change in myself too at times.

I’ve found drivers way way more rude now. Jumping red lights is epidemic. Drivers regularly wait on crossings. I had to literally put my hand out today to stop a taxi driver edging towards me when the crossing light was green. It’s really common. There has definitely been a shift in driving behaviours since the pandemic. As a pedestrian in the UK I’ve never been so afraid of cars

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#177

Post by jskrablin »

the_af wrote: post #145
appleskeptic wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Those policies aren't proven to work and your caveat renders the assertion meaningless. But regardless: it is well studied that fascism is an appeal to emotion, not reason. Neither Italian fascism nor German nazism were rational or grounded in science. They were pseudoscientific and appealed to notions of blood, purity, sacrifice and nationalism -- that is, they appealed to emotion. They clouded the reason.

Every political system clouds the reason and appeals to emotion. There are very few policies anywhere that are grounded in science. They may be, initially, until they get massacred by politicians to get them aligned with currently dominant ideology (which by definition is a belief system, grounded mostly in fairy tales about who's better than everyone else).

Just take a look at the current state of democracy... and let me know where the science is hiding.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#178

Post by appleskeptic »

yawpitch wrote: post #160
the_af wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those policies aren't proven to work and your caveat renders the assertion meaningless. But regardless: it is well studied that fascism is an appeal to emotion, not reason. Neither Italian fascism nor German nazism were rational or grounded in science. They were pseudoscientific and appealed to notions of blood, purity, sacrifice and nationalism -- that is, they appealed to emotion. They clouded the reason.

To be fair to the people of the day, that pseudoscience was considered mainstream legitimate science at the time, strongly promoted by their equivalent of Elon Musk on their equivalent of ExTwitter. Just part of what terrifies me about the leadership of the world’s superpower from next year being a toss up between two guys who would have been taught that eugenics was settled fact in school.

[flagged]

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#179

Post by stana »

vpribish wrote: post #88

"Don't let your mind speak louder than your heart" - I think many have this so very wrong. Is support for fascism is a sensible, logical, well-thought-out policy? No, it's a heart-felt, emotional appeal to scared, proud, paranoid, crude, brutal people (who seem to be about half of our neighbors). surely the mindful decision is empathetic, constructive, and wise - not just base.

Romanticism of 19th century can be thought of as rationality winning over less rational religion. The 'God is dead' sort of thinking. Yet in the midst of all of this rationality and scientific progress we end up with 2 world wars?

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#180

Post by appleskeptic »

cmdli wrote: post #150
appleskeptic wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Are those policies proven to work? The war on drugs was proven to be ineffective, many successful businessmen are immigrants or the children of immigrants, and mental asylums were brutal institutions that only propagated mental illness and did not cure it. All of these solutions, however, make people feel like “someone is doing something”, which is an emotional appeal even though those methods are empirically ineffec…

War on Drugs works in Singapore where drug dealers get swift, harsh punishment.
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