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Web Analytics Illegal in UK after 26 May? Crazy

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Re: Web Analytics Illegal in UK after 26 May? Crazy

#61

Post by dhx »

uggedal wrote: post #19
synx508 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about third party cookies, it's about cookies period - with the exceptions listed in the article. If you use your own analytics package, the chances are it will use cookies, so user permission will still be required. Log parsing isn't sufficient to get user-based statistics.

You can get user-based statistics without cookies with: (new Image()).src="http://your.tld/track.png?ua=" + encodeURIComponent(navigator.userAgent); and then parse your logs. Update: this is just an example, as ars notes the user agent is sent as a HTTP header. But screen resolution etc is not.

§66 on page 20 of Directive 2009/136/EC at [1] uses the word "information", not "cookies".

  Third parties may wish to store information on the
  equip­ment of a user, or gain access to information
  already stored, for a number of purposes, ranging
  from the legiti­mate (such as certain types of
  cookies) to those involving unwarranted intrusion
  into the private sphere (such as spy­ware or
  viruses). It is therefore of paramount importance
  that users be provided with clear and comprehensive
  infor­mation when engaging in any activity which
  could result in such storage or gaining of access.
The purpose of the directive is to be as broad as possible to cover collection of any type of information without express permission or "strictly necessary and legitimate purpose".

[1] http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2...

Re: Web Analytics Illegal in UK after 26 May? Crazy

#62

Post by JohnnyFlash »

toyg wrote: post #52
JohnnyFlash wrote: post #43

My company is going to ignore the law until someone pull's us up on it. This law will severely restrict our ability to analyse how users are interacting with our product. This law will compromise our ability to further improve our product and disadvantage us against foreign competitors. Our company doesn't track users off the site, we anonymise data so it cannot be tracked back to an individual... as far as we are co…

I'm not disagreeing with you, but you might want to reword this post. The internet doesn't forget, and you never know when some old post might be used against you.

I don't post any personal information with my JohnnyFlash alias. I like my privacy :)

Thanks for the warning though.

Re: Web Analytics Illegal in UK after 26 May? Crazy

#63

Post by justincormack »

gyardley wrote: post #54
ticks wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are seeing this from a limited viewpoint. There's lots of people out there who don't even understand what the internet is, you'd be lucky if they know what a browsers is. The EU is proactively protecting those people, much like has been done for decades with offline data protection.

Protecting them from what exactly? I'm genuinely curious about this - what do you think gets done with a browser cookie that actually causes real harm to the user? Perhaps that should be regulated instead of the mechanism for it.

That already is regulated in the EU, which has reasonable data protection legislation.

This is just supposed to be like the signs you are required to have if you use cctv, letting people avoid it if they wish to.

Re: Web Analytics Illegal in UK after 26 May? Crazy

#64

Post by justincormack »

sparknlaunch12 wrote: post #12

Wouldn't this be easier if browser companies blocked all cookies by default. Users wanting cookies turn of blocker? A lot less browsers than websites?

This was an option, and it seems the uk wanted do not track or browser settings to change in time for this but it didnt happen. If it does the guidelines will change.

Re: Web Analytics Illegal in UK after 26 May? Crazy

#65

Post by gcp »

The site focuses on the UK implementation of the law, but unfortunately the directive is EU wide and individual member states are hence supposed to put it into law, too. I say supposed because as in typical EU style, the member states are lagging, or doing their own thing.

http://www.dlapiper.com/files/Uploads/Documents/DLA_Piper%20...

Who are screwed: Austria, Latvia, Lithuania, Sweden and the UK.

The actual law says that any non-strictly-needed cookie (or whatever you use to track users) MUST receive PRIOR opt-in from the user. It also clarifies that non-strictly-needed must be read in the narrowest sense possible, so that even saving user preferences is considered non-essential. As far as I can tell this means that even normal use of session cookies is outlawed.

There seem to be some posters here who think the law only matters for analytics, and hence as users it's not their problem. You couldn't be more wrong, there is no such restriction in the law! This will effectively make the internet unusable unless websites start grouping login/cookie access. Like with Google/Facebook/Twitter account login systems. If the intent of the law was to hamper those companies, it will effectively achieve the opposite by hurting the smaller players disproportionally.

And of course, you might not have to care because this will likely end up mostly unenforced. But as a site operator, it's still a Damocles' Sword hanging above your head if you ever get Kafka'ed. The fines are not small.

Re: Web Analytics Illegal in UK after 26 May? Crazy

#66

Post by read_wharf »

wardenclyffe wrote: post #31
icebraining wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, their policy seems sensible and I'm having an hard time giving a fuck about the webmasters (is this still used?). If you want to track, do it properly with a package installed on your own server. stop subjecting your users to Google's All-Seeing Eye just because using their Analytics is easier for you.

I am currently a webmaster (and I don't know if that's still used either, doesn't feel like it), and this is going to be a huge pain in the arse. The main reason it is a pain is the vagueness of the legislation, nobody has any idea what they can and can't do. Sure we can follow the ICO and put a pop-up on the site asking to accept cookies or not (which if you select 'not' ironically creates a cookie), but as other pe…

"It's also a bit rich saying that tracking cookies are bad whilst trying to pass a law attempting to track almost all communication:"

Governments hate competition.

Re: Web Analytics Illegal in UK after 26 May? Crazy

#67

Post by gcp »

_delirium wrote: post #57
gcp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you cannot. Just read the law. ANY kind of cookie requires PRIOR permissions.

Well, yes, but presumably you would ask your users to set those. For example, if you use Gmail, presumably you will agree to let Gmail set your login cookie. Then Google can do web analytics keyed off that; the law doesn't actually ban doing analytics.

Right, so the majority of websites are now required to display the warning and request opt-in.

You don't see how this is a major pain?

You can already get this behavior in your browser by changing user settings. Just try to surf like that for a while. It's horrendous, and what's worse, it doesn't make the user any wiser, really.

Re: Web Analytics Illegal in UK after 26 May? Crazy

#68

Post by read_wharf »

toyg wrote: post #10
jgrahamc wrote: post #7

If you read right to the end of the actual guidance from the ICO it says: --- We only use analytical cookies – if nobody consents that will seriously restrict the amount of information we can get to improve and develop our website The Regulations do not distinguish between cookies used for analytical activities and those used for other purposes. We do not consider analytical cookies fall within the ‘strictly necessar…

Translation: we don't want to sue you, this law is to go after Facebook and Google.

If shopping cart-type cookies are excluded, then I'd say this law favors FB et al.

Re: Web Analytics Illegal in UK after 26 May? Crazy

#69

Post by Zirro »

We went through all this in Sweden a while ago, based on the same EU-directive. What has happened since the law passed here?

Not much. A few government-related sites have started showing an explanation about what a cookie is and does, and gives the choice of accepting or declining the cookie.

Other sites, despite the law, continues to function like normal. It's simply unenforceable on a large scale.

Re: Web Analytics Illegal in UK after 26 May? Crazy

#70

Post by scanr »

Iv wrote: post #51
scanr wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a whole class of 'mom & pop' type websites out there that need analytics to function but: * It's hosted in a way that precludes putting your own analytics in there (github pages, s3 etc.) * The users lack the technical sophistication to install and manage their own analytics. I've just finished moving my wife's site to github pages. It's awesome. The mac github client is pretty friendly, I set up the repo and…

> There's a whole class of 'mom & pop' type websites out there that need analytics to function If they are not skilled enough to install their own counter, I doubt they need analytics.

* 'Installing their own counter' may require moving off their own hosting provider

* I know a large number of business minded folk who could not operate without analytics but are not qualified to install any of the software in this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_analytics_software#...

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