The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#71

Post by a_gnostic » Sun, Dec 17, 2023, 5:56 PM UTC

addicted wrote: post #58

oeta wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The contradiction arises because the user "flashback" depicts it as an either-or scenario. It shouldn't be interpreted as an exclusive OR statement; instead, there might be a nuanced interplay between thinking and feeling.

It doesn’t sound like an either or. One could potentially think too much

Too many policies are based on too little reason, with too much feeling, all while thinking they're scientific, but without taking human feelings into account, they fail harder each time they are tried. But who am I to know better; Surely with the right person in charge, this time it will work…

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#72

Post by kurthr » Sun, Dec 17, 2023, 5:57 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #48

mensetmanusman wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Nazi Germany thought their way to the holocaust. That's bullshit though. You don't think your way to holocaust, you hate and greed and fear your way to it. Those are all feelings. Even indifference to the violence and death of others is a feeling - or at least fear-driven emotional defense mechanism. The Nazis weren't "machine men, with machine minds and machine hearts", no matter how much it nicely riffs off machi…

Facts and reason mean little to fascists and authoritarians. Any excuse is sufficient to justify the hatred, fear, and greed needed to run such machines of repression. If the facts don't support the narrative then "alternative facts" will be made to. They are populist enterprises arising from how people feel, and continuing because nobody wants to admit they're wrong.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#73

Post by vasco » Sun, Dec 17, 2023, 5:59 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #70

vasco wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eugenics and Phrenology were very relevant at the time and used as a scientific basis to justify many attrocities. It's important to remember that science evolves, and what we "know" to be part of scientific knowledge today might be debunked in the future. Specially with the state of peer review in the social sciences my feeling is many things that are said to be scientific fact today will be proven wrong later, incl…

> used as a scientific basis to justify many attrocities That's the operating phrase though. Throughout history, atrocities were justified using whatever was seen as the higher authority at the moment - the will of a deity, the words of a prophet, the decree of a king, appeal to destiny or legacy, and yes, science too. Especially in the early XX century, when science was kicking into gear, and delivering miracles lef…

Yes I didn't mean to say it was at fault, I was mostly bringing to light that _at the time_ the people doing these things thought they were being scientific about it, or convinced themselves of it. I agree with all your points in the follow up and think about it in very similar ways.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#74

Post by flashback2199 » Sun, Dec 17, 2023, 6:06 PM UTC

bsdpufferfish wrote: post #59

flashback2199 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think feel isn't precise enough, maybe compassion is better? In the speech, Chaplain opposes the Nazis, yet the main tool the Nazis used to gain and hold power in Germany was by emotion, distributed thru speeches on the radio especially. Hitler was a highly emotional speaker. WWII didn't occur due to a lack of feeling.

Was there more emotional rhetoric than is otherwise used in politics? Personally the “hitler mind controlled everyone with his speach” theory that I was told in the 90s just isn’t convincing. Facism was in the zeitgeist around the world.

No mind control, he said what people wanted to hear after losing WWI

Mind control was how Yuri helped the USSR win the Cold war in Red Alert 2 (joke ;)

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#75

Post by riku_iki » Sun, Dec 17, 2023, 6:08 PM UTC

przem8k wrote: post #10

"Don't let your mind speak louder than your heart". In tech we value data and being right so much, we may be too often missing the important part of being a decent human being.

> we may be too often missing the important part of being a decent human being.

"decent human being" is too vague and easily manipulated term, so it could be better to follow hard metrics and data.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#76

Post by hannofcart » Sun, Dec 17, 2023, 6:12 PM UTC

qingcharles wrote: post #44

I always liked this version with music added: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WibmcsEGLKo I remember sharing a jail cell with a 19-year-old Mexican kid once and we were talking about the guards being assholes and he said "they're like machine men"; and I said "with machine minds and machine hearts?" and he was like "YES! You know it?!" -- it was a good moment, we spent the next few days trying to remember the whole s…

While this was a pithy comment, I'd totally upvote and read an article on how someone who frequents HN found themselves in the scenario you mentioned.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#77

Post by eternauta3k » Sun, Dec 17, 2023, 6:15 PM UTC

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #57

noah_buddy wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t think of a single fact on its own that presents any danger. If anything, facts through the lens of ideology may become dangerous, but data on its own is like technology. Neutral without application, good or evil depending on situation.

Hypothetically if the world's scientists were to all prove that blacks were inferior to whites, what good would come out of that? I can't think of a single good thing that would come from that- the world would be worse for knowing such a fact.

If this were proven, we would be forced to set a rigorous foundation for our values where all people have the same rights and worth regardless of how smart they are. Instead of saying people are only equally worthy if they are equally smart, and hoping no one proves the latter wrong.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#78

Post by rayiner » Sun, Dec 17, 2023, 6:16 PM UTC

Zetobal wrote: post #20

If you watch the news it should be clear that we feel too much and think too little. Everything is a rage fueled garbage contest.

Yes, true. And I say this as someone on the right—we complain about “feelers” but that’s Trump’s whole MO.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#79

Post by basicallybones » Sun, Dec 17, 2023, 6:18 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #35

questinthrow wrote: post #2

I'd wager it's more like we don't think at all and feel only anger. At least online that is.

It just occurred to me that anger is favored online because of a UX quirk. To build is complex; to destroy requires only a single bit! So the objects of our ire, those people, things and ideas we want gone from the world, those things that require only that we express our hatred and ill-will toward them, naturally become the most popular and shared content. As a corollary the people who are clearest and most concrete…

"To build is complex; to destroy requires only a single bit!"

Love this.

Re: The Final Speech from The Great Dictator (1940)

#80

Post by qingcharles » Sun, Dec 17, 2023, 6:19 PM UTC

hannofcart wrote: post #76

qingcharles wrote: post #44

I always liked this version with music added: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WibmcsEGLKo I remember sharing a jail cell with a 19-year-old Mexican kid once and we were talking about the guards being assholes and he said "they're like machine men"; and I said "with machine minds and machine hearts?" and he was like "YES! You know it?!" -- it was a good moment, we spent the next few days trying to remember the whole s…

While this was a pithy comment, I'd totally upvote and read an article on how someone who frequents HN found themselves in the scenario you mentioned.

There's a long story which I hope soon to be able to document.

One thing I learned was never, ever, ever to judge people on first impressions. I think I thought "Oh no" when they put that kid in my cell, but he was an utterly fantastic cellmate. His case was fascinating; he had stolen approximately $60,000 over several months as a night cashier at Target by managing to pick the lock on the safes next to the register using a pen during hours of boredom. He burned through every penny flying around the country staying at nice hotels every weekend to fuel his burgeoning MMA career. He was finally called to the office by a manager at Target and two detectives were there. He didn't get a chance to deny anything as a roll of $3,000 cash fell out of his pants leg as he was stood right in front of them.