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Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

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Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#31
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> breaking internet standards by deprecating flash Flash was never an "internet standard"; it was a proprietary product of Adobe. OK, it depends on what you mean by "internet standard"; in general, I take "X standard" to mean a specification for X issued by some standards body, such that a third-party can implement X by following the spec.

It was a defacto standard. Everyone had Flash. Granted, there were reason to abandon it. But I can understand people being upset with it gone.

Didn't really take long for replacements like https://ruffle.rs/ to emerge, though.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#32
post #17

All of these practices feel fairly benign compared to what microsoft is doing now. At the time they merely shipped the browser with the OS. I don't think this would even raise an eyebrow now. They were also accused of adding new features only in IE which forced websites to deal with incompatible browsers. /s of course this is a problem developers do not need to deal with anymore! The Microsoft we are dealing with now…

> At the time they merely shipped the browser with the OS.

> They were also accused of adding new features only in IE which forced websites to deal with incompatible browsers

I do not think this is an accurate representation of history.

First, Microsoft was fighting against the whole concept of a browser as separate from its OS. The fact that one can 'change your default browser', as you so casually say, without changing your OS was a major victory in itself that people worked very hard to ensure.

Second, it was not just 'features' that Microsoft added to IE. They were actively ignoring standards and with Frontpage people could easily generate web pages that looked fine in IE but were a complete mess of impenetrable HTML for other browsers. And when you complained about this the owner would simply add a 'best viewed in IE' icon on their website and start blaming you instead...

In short, at the time it was not at all obvious that a large majority of the web would remain accessible using any other browser than IE. (And similarly for email clients, by the way.) I agree with you that there is still plenty of shady behavior going on, but I am not sure that I would classify the old practices as 'fairly benign'.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#33
post #17

All of these practices feel fairly benign compared to what microsoft is doing now. At the time they merely shipped the browser with the OS. I don't think this would even raise an eyebrow now. They were also accused of adding new features only in IE which forced websites to deal with incompatible browsers. /s of course this is a problem developers do not need to deal with anymore! The Microsoft we are dealing with now…

> At the time they merely shipped the browser with the OS. > They were also accused of adding new features only in IE which forced websites to deal with incompatible browsers I do not think this is an accurate representation of history. First, Microsoft was fighting against the whole concept of a browser as separate from its OS. The fact that one can 'change your default browser', as you so casually say, without chan…

> First, Microsoft was fighting against the whole concept of a browser as separate from its OS

you mean, just like the Good Guy ChromeOS?

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you check my comment again, I’m saying it was abandoned after WHATWG formalised XHR. It existed a long time before that. I think XHR was a little earlier, but they were roughly contemporaneous. And of course, people were doing XHR stuff before XHR existed with things like invisible iframes, but those were just hacks.

> It ended up being abandoned when XMLHttpRequest was made the standard by WHATWG I think. "It" was using the Document object to load a URL. WHATWG was not responsible for standardizing XMLHTTPRequest.

https://xhr.spec.whatwg.org/#specification-history

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#37
For the vast majority of use cases today, you no longer have to spend most of your time adding hacks for every kind of browser just to get a page to render correctly. That's pretty huge. Say what you will about the shenanigans corporations pull on the web today, it's far less painful to make a web app now. (Overcomplicated, sure, but overall less painful)

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#38

For the vast majority of use cases today, you no longer have to spend most of your time adding hacks for every kind of browser just to get a page to render correctly. That's pretty huge. Say what you will about the shenanigans corporations pull on the web today, it's far less painful to make a web app now. (Overcomplicated, sure, but overall less painful)

This statement holds true on desktops but not on mobiles.

Apple cripples Safari (and other browsers) on iOS, and mobile ads are an abomination on all platforms if the user is not savvy enough to know how to block them.

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#39
post #23

I loved those screenshots from my youth, but my smile quickly faded when each of the "bad stuff" Microsoft used to do back then are currently embedded into every aspect of our digital landscape by ... Google, of course! Look at them covering all their bases and making sure anything that isn't Chrome doesn't feel up to task ... or just simply making sure that one way or another, you end up seeing their ads.

My pet theory is that all the people responsible for the things Microsoft did in the 1990s and 2000s moved to Google. Hence Chrome being the new IE, dreadful product names and endless product churn and rebranding. Google must have gone through at least as many chat apps as Microsoft went through media stores. Google Talk, Chat, Messages, Duet, Allo, Hangouts, Meet, Meet (original) vs. Microsoft PlaysForSure, Zune, Media Player, Live Music, Xbox music…

Re: Microsoft forced people to install their browser (2010)

#40

For the vast majority of use cases today, you no longer have to spend most of your time adding hacks for every kind of browser just to get a page to render correctly. That's pretty huge. Say what you will about the shenanigans corporations pull on the web today, it's far less painful to make a web app now. (Overcomplicated, sure, but overall less painful)

This statement holds true on desktops but not on mobiles. Apple cripples Safari (and other browsers) on iOS, and mobile ads are an abomination on all platforms if the user is not savvy enough to know how to block them.

In what way is it crippled?
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