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Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#641

Post by rezonant »

msh wrote: post #549
rezonant wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, if you break your iPhone on vacation and buy a phone that is not an iPhone so that you can still be contacted until you get home to your favorite Apple Store, you are also losing messages, assuming you forget to go through Apple's iMessage deregistration system. Really the design of iMessage is the problem.

Only if you have another iOS/macOS device receiving them at home. If you don't receive iMessages it will automatically fall back to SMS (unless the sender specifically turned that feature off).

If you register your phone number to iMessage without any other iMessage receivers and then turn off that iPhone, messages sent for an extended period of time will continue to be queued for delivery in iMessage. In order for other iPhones to start falling back to SMS you need to manually deregister. In Google Messages and other RCS clients, by default it will give you a "Message not delivered" message indicating your message never made it to the handset. You then have an opportunity to manually resend that pending message via SMS. You can disable this behavior though if you prefer to use the two-check delivery receipt information to determine when your message hits the handset.

While neither mechanism is perfect, the RCS model treats lack of delivery to the handset as a potential problem, whereas iMessage ignores it. iMessage assumes your phone is just off, which for most people you are texting, is an unlikely scenario.

For users who actively turn off their device for certain activities, you have the opportunity to just wait, and when it arrives the error will clear, or send it as SMS and it will pick it up when the handset does turn on. But while the message is in flight for any length of time, the UI treats it as "something is wrong".

This means whenever you return to the conversation to check for a response or text more, you'll be reminded strongly that the message never arrived for them. And you always have the opportunity to resend on SMS during that time.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#642

Post by viraptor »

joshmanders wrote: post #585
viraptor wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making iMessage which handles SMS, but by default transparently upgrades you to another protocol is the first two parts of EEE. Realistically, no normies flip that switch.

> Realistically, no normies flip that switch. Got stats to back this up? I have 3 friends who use iPhone's that do have that toggle flipped.

2022, est.

- 1.36 billion iPhone users

- 1.3 billion iMessage users

https://www.demandsage.com/iphone-user-statistics/

https://www.usesignhouse.com/blog/imessage-stats

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#643

Post by filoleg »

stonogo wrote: post #630
filoleg wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t anymore, but it used to for pretty much all phone carriers in the US. And even now, on T-Mobile (as that’s the one I use, so the only one I can verify myself), if you have an account with multiple lines (e.g., a family plan), you can go into your account, click “Usage”, then “Text messages”, and it will show you all text info for all lines on the account (but no actual text content). And not just for “kid…

I've been with T-Mobile for twenty years and in that time it has never released messaging content to account holders. Their cybersecurity record may be trash, but misinformation isn't really helpful. I'm not convinced that handing everything to a different company is a solution, but I'm glad you found a plan you're comfortable with.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t trying to criticize t-mobile. Been their customer for the past 8 or so years, and I wouldn’t have stayed if I had some serious reservations about them.

I stand corrected though, you are right, i don’t think the content of messages has been ever obtainable. At least not since 2006 when it became explicitly illegal for carriers to provide that info to anyone (including the customer paying for the phone line) outside of special circumstances like a court orderc subpoena, etc. (so practically it isn’t an option for the heavy majority).

However, it is factually true that i can get metadata (datetime of each text, phone numbers of both parties, who sent who how many messages, etc) about texts being exchanged from my carrier by just clicking through a couple of menus in the app today. I checked that right before posting my earlier comment. And it is also factually true that despite the carrier not being allowed to disclose to me the content of those messages, they themselves indeed have have full access to the content in plaintext.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#644

Post by firecall »

Grustaf wrote: post #507
vintermann wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nice of you, but by all accounts from the US (where iphone is dominant): Yes, it's a problem. The visual marking and decreased integration/service towards users of non-iphones is pretty obviously part of why Apple has such a big phone market share in the US - if not, they wouldn't fight tooth and nail to keep those anti-features. There's plenty of examples of Apple being quite open and friendly to integration…

It’s not just about market share. In Scandinavia about 90% of middle class people use iphones, but this whole blue-green bubble nonsense is a total non-issue. We have group chats in whatsapp, fb messages or sms, nobody cares.

Same in Australia, and my friends in the UK.

Blue / Green bubble is a total non issue.

We use Telegram or Facebook Messenger.

Facebook Messenger and FB Groups are the main form of comms for School networking.

Whats App is huge in the Uk by all accounts.

I have friends in LA who say the blue / green bubble situation is a non issue for them, and they use Android.

However it might be an issue for other non Middle Ages demographics and so on.

Still, I have a suspicion the drama over bubble colour is hyped up but the US media.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#645

Post by throwaway290 »

MissTake wrote: post #303
throwaway290 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. Apple might disagree. https://9to5mac.com/2023/11/16/apple-rcs-coming-to-iphone/

That’s not iMessage. RCS is a replacement for SMS.

It's pretty much iMessage.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#646

Post by lencastre »

zem wrote: post #399
rezonant wrote: post #313

I think this is kinda technically a win for Beeper. I would've expected another 100% lockout to be Apple's priority. They were instead only able to block 5%, which sounds like a heuristic being applied, and possibly not even an intentional block of Beeper (in the sense that some anti-spam service may be identifying some Beeper users). They can certainly escalate with protocol changes, but they still have to contend w…

i believe that thus far it's a win for apple - all they need to do is introduce the perception that beeper is not 100% reliable, which is the kiss of death for something as potentially important as a messaging service.

people are surprisingly patient with messaging,… WhatsApp was down for 2 hours like last Tuesday at 3am and a civil war erupted in Brazil and stuff

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#647

Post by [deleted] »

filoleg wrote: post #581
hocuspocus wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LINE absolutely dominates the Japanese market in instant messaging and beyond (it's a super app like WeChat or KakaoTalk).

Yeah, I was familiar with LINE and Kakao, and I like how similar the setup is for SK and Japan. Thanks to your point, this way we can easily see that despite SK being android-dominant and Japan being iPhone-dominant, both are not heavily into iMessage and prefer their native super apps instead. Which provides a solid data point in favor of those claiming that the iMessage proliferation and dominance don’t necessarily…

[deleted]

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#648

Post by MissTake »

throwaway290 wrote: post #645
MissTake wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not iMessage. RCS is a replacement for SMS.

It's pretty much iMessage.

No, it’s not even close.

RCS is a totally different messaging protocol.

It’s pretty much to iMessage as iMessage is to SMS.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#649

Post by throwaway290 »

MissTake wrote: post #648
throwaway290 wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty much iMessage.

No, it’s not even close. RCS is a totally different messaging protocol. It’s pretty much to iMessage as iMessage is to SMS.

Reread what I said. I did not say "you are wrong" or "RCS is iMessage". I said "Apple might disagree with you" and "RCS is pretty much iMessage". Why don't you stop trying to make me seem wrong by putting words into my mouth.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#650

Post by MissTake »

throwaway290 wrote: post #649
MissTake wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not even close. RCS is a totally different messaging protocol. It’s pretty much to iMessage as iMessage is to SMS.

Reread what I said. I did not say "you are wrong" or "RCS is iMessage". I said "Apple might disagree with you" and "RCS is pretty much iMessage". Why don't you stop trying to make me seem wrong by putting words into my mouth.

This is the original message you replied to:

‘Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android.’

This was your reply:

‘Apple might disagree.’ and you then proceeded to supply a link to 9to5Mac about Apple interfaces iMessage to RCS.

TFA states:

“But at the same time, iMessage isn’t going anywhere. It will continue to be the messaging platform used for all communication between iPhone users. RCS will simply supplant SMS and MMS and exist separately from iMessage when available. SMS and MMS will also continue to be available as a fallback when needed, Apple says.

This is not Apple opening up iMessage to other platforms. Instead, it’s the company adopting RCS separately from iMessage”

The very link you supplied disproves your point.

iMessage is iMessage. RCS is RCS, and SMS is SMS.

Sorry, but iMessage is not RCS.

Base RCS for example does not support E2EE. iMessage does.

You can claim they’re the same as much as you’d like, but their only similarities is that iMessage will send messages to RCS and support the native carrier chosen RCS features.

https://www.engadget.com/what-is-rcs-and-how-is-it-different...

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