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Self-teaching, spaced repetition, and why books don't work

dwarkeshpatel.com

21–30 of 154 posts

Re: Self-teaching, spaced repetition, and why books don't work

#21
post #6

Spaced repetition is underrated. I still remember a lot from my cards despite not having studied them for years

I had the opposite experience. If something's easy to remember, I don't need Anki. If something's hard to remember (I really struggle with birthdays, for example), even Anki doesn't help! The cards all end up as "leech" and Anki stops showing them to me. (I found this behaviour amusing, since the whole point of using Anki is to help me learn things that are difficult to remember!) They say if a card is ending up as a…

> If something's easy to remember, I don't need Anki.

That probably depends on what and how much you are trying to memorize with Anki. It is easy to learn a few words in a foreign language, but try to learn three to five new words per day for a year straight and suddenly you realize how far spaced repetition can bring you.

For leeches, what helps is to create more cards with the same concept (and do not suspend the leech, you are right that is not a good idea). If I struggle learning a word, I create more sentences using that word, or connect it with synonyms and antonyms. For birthdays, maybe try to add some memories related to that birthday: some particular gift, a happy moment during that day, the weather or location where you celebrated... Just see what sticks :)

Re: Self-teaching, spaced repetition, and why books don't work

#22
Yea, it's always bugged us that we learn the way folks did hundreds of years ago.

Which is why we built https://www.munkle.it the way we did and focused on speed of review.

I used to not like the feeling that spaced repetition did (it's always in that slightly hard stage) but apparently that's what helps you remember.

Re: Self-teaching, spaced repetition, and why books don't work

#24
post #6

Spaced repetition is underrated. I still remember a lot from my cards despite not having studied them for years

I had the opposite experience. If something's easy to remember, I don't need Anki. If something's hard to remember (I really struggle with birthdays, for example), even Anki doesn't help! The cards all end up as "leech" and Anki stops showing them to me. (I found this behaviour amusing, since the whole point of using Anki is to help me learn things that are difficult to remember!) They say if a card is ending up as a…

Learn the month and day separately?

Re: Self-teaching, spaced repetition, and why books don't work

#25

I typically have a low opinion on rote memorization, I remember years ago at university my roommate swore by his note cards (physical index cards at the time) while I strongly maintained the need to build up intuition around the math and physics I was doing. He was in med school and I was in engineering, but I felt that the memorization while successful at least for him, was limiting in terms of potential innovation.

Yeah med students seem to be unique in the amount of stuff they need to remember, at least in terms of users Ive worked with. The amount of things medical students need to memorize to pass their USMLE exams is insane. I designed and built a learning tool at a startup for med students using picture mnenomics and spaced repetition quizzing that seriously helped those students and lead to the startup being acquired.

Re: Self-teaching, spaced repetition, and why books don't work

#26
Ulgh why didn't the blog link to "Why books donʼt work" https://andymatuschak.org/books/

Some select disjoint passages:

> Like lectures, books have no carefully-considered cognitive model at their foundation, but the medium does have an implicit model. And like lectures, that model is transmissionism. Sequences of words in sequences of lines in sequences of pages, the form of a book suggests people absorb knowledge by reading sentences. In caricature: “The author describes an idea in words on the page; the reader reads the words; then the reader understands the idea. When the reader reaches the last page, they’ve finished the book.” Of course, most authors don’t believe that people learn things this way, but because the medium makes the assumption invisible, it’s hard to question.

> Readers must learn specific reflective strategies. “What questions should I be asking? How should I summarize what I’m reading?” Readers must run their own feedback loops. “Did I understand that? Should I re-read it? Consult another text?” Readers must understand their own cognition. “What does it feel like to understand something? Where are my blind spots?”

> These skills fall into a bucket which learning science calls “metacognition.” The experimental evidence suggests that it’s challenging to learn these types of skills, and that many adults lack them.Baker, L. (1989). Metacognition, comprehension monitoring, and the adult reader. Educational Psychology Review, 1(1), 3–38. Worse, even if readers know how to do all these things, the process is quite taxing. Readers must juggle both the content of the book and also all these meta-questions. People particularly struggle to multitask like this when the content is unfamiliar.

> My collaborator Michael Nielsen and I made an initial attempt with Quantum Country, a “book” on quantum computation. But reading this “book” doesn’t look like reading any other book. The explanatory text is tightly woven with brief interactive review sessions, meant to exploit the ideas we just introduced. Reading Quantum Country means reading a few minutes of text, then quickly testing your memory about everything you’ve just read, then reading for a few more minutes, or perhaps scrolling back to reread certain details, and so on.

Re: Self-teaching, spaced repetition, and why books don't work

#27

Books work well and have been the standard for learning many topics for hundreds of years. They have few technical problems, Easy to sell, borrow, give away. Yes, you can go about reading a book in different ways depending on what and why you are reading and what works for you. I think it is highly unfortunate that universities these days, at least in science, then to force students to buy a new edition every year, o…

The university textbook issue was big when I was a student in the mid-late 90s.

In fact, one of my CS professors went on a rant about it, how it is simply a way to invalidate the used book market... he then told us to buy books from an online storefront with this funny name (that he assured us had nothing to do with the rainforest) that sold them for a sizable discount instead our own university bookstore.

Re: Self-teaching, spaced repetition, and why books don't work

#28

I typically have a low opinion on rote memorization, I remember years ago at university my roommate swore by his note cards (physical index cards at the time) while I strongly maintained the need to build up intuition around the math and physics I was doing. He was in med school and I was in engineering, but I felt that the memorization while successful at least for him, was limiting in terms of potential innovation.

Likely each successful strategies for the different specializations.

Re: Self-teaching, spaced repetition, and why books don't work

#29

Books work well and have been the standard for learning many topics for hundreds of years. They have few technical problems, Easy to sell, borrow, give away. Yes, you can go about reading a book in different ways depending on what and why you are reading and what works for you. I think it is highly unfortunate that universities these days, at least in science, then to force students to buy a new edition every year, o…

Most books are very badly written.

Re: Self-teaching, spaced repetition, and why books don't work

#30
I like books, but I basically agree with the idea that the traditional front-to-back text narrative format is hugely inefficient. I think a lot of people interpret technological developments as some of natural process, and therefore the omnipresence and long existence of books implies that they are a great learning method.

In reality, though, the format of a book itself is probably just more "evolutionarily fit" compared to alternatives. If a device that could record and replay audio was somehow invented prior to the printing press, it seems highly likely to me that we'd live in a audio-based world, not a text one. After all, societies spent thousands of years using only spoken language, with writing as a fairly recent phenomenon.

A more efficient book system, IMO, would incorporate spaced repetition more directly, whether by highlighting the key points at the bottom of each page, or even by deliberately including "reminder" paragraphs throughout the book.

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