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Fastmail Employees Form a Union

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141–150 of 303 posts

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#141

Does anybody know what motivated the unionization effort? This is relevant to me as a Fastmail customer, because if the employees aren't being treated well that's a very poor reflection of the company.

I don’t know anything special about it, but I wouldn’t interpret it necessarily as saying anything negative about Fastmail. For example, lots of perfectly nice companies get bough by giant behemoths. For all we know, Fastmail might have perfectly nice management that understands that future owners, rather than them, are the enemy.

Top-level management doesn't even have to be "the enemy" for a union to be very nice to have—companies of more than like 30 people are gonna have a shitty, abusive middle-manager somewhere and a union gives employees cover to resist their bullshit at far lower personal risk.

"No, I won't be (coming in on Sunday/'just doing this one extra thing before leaving after hours'/breaking company policy and legal requirements for safety or waste disposal or whatever), please see [section of union agreement], if you'd like to continue this discussion I can bring in my rep and, as required by policy laid out in [other section of union agreement], your boss, and we can all have a chat about this" will get a lot of abusive pricks to tuck tail and STFU in a hurry, with low risk of effective retaliation.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#142
post #7

As a Fastmail customer: great! More power to them. If anything, any negative reaction by Fastmail, the corporation will act as a signal for me to start thinking about moving away. You know a company is morally bankrupt if they fight their employees unionizing. I don't think Fastmail will do that though.

> You know a company is morally bankrupt if they fight their employees unionizing Any company would oppose their employees unionizing; they have a fiduciary duty to do so

Exactly right. A union is basically a cartel. The whole idea of a union is to nullify at will employement.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#144
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions don't always indicate there is a problem in need of solving. It's just a group of employees agreeing to bargain collectively with their employer, which helps balance out the negotiation power between employees and the employer and creates a stable, well-defined employment relationship.

I struggle to imagine a scenario where employees would unionize despite already feeling like they are treated fairly. The union/employer relationship is inherently hostile. The whole idea is that unionized employees can threaten production/profits as negotiation leverage. Choosing that path means the employees have already given up on cooperation based on goodwill. It must take a very sour relationship to reach that…

You struggle to imagine anyone understanding current fair treatment does not guarantee future fair treatment?

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#145
post #124
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long story very short, history. Unions in the US are organized shop by shop. You can go to a union's homepage and click "JOIN TODAY!" if you wish. It just doesn't create any obligation for your employer to care.

That's how unions work by default everywhere else too. It's just more common for entire industries to be unionized (through momentum, not outright obligation) outside the US.

The way US system works, even when the entire industry is unionized, your union membership is generally through the "local" associated with your employer, not something independent of your current employment, with very few exceptions. That local may be part of an umbrella union that also covers the rest of your industry (or even a wide range of different industries, e.g., AFL-CIO or SEIU.)

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#146
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The evidence doesn’t support this claim, and is why over 1000 VW workers in Tennessee indicated their intent to join the UAW after the UAW won historic benefits from automakers.

>and is why over 1000 VW workers in Tennessee indicated their intent to join the UAW out of how many workers total?

3800. Simple majority wins when they vote, so less than another 1000 to go.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't unionize your way to a better economy, that's not how that works The Nordic model begs to differ.

> The Nordic model begs to differ. Can you expand on that? Because as an outside observer it seems that the Nordic model is primarily propped up by public-owned natural resource extraction enabling near-endless funding for universally available services and industry-wide (rather than company-wide) guarantees enforced by the unions, but nothing about the unions or their economic model drives their way to a better econ…

> as an outside observer it seems that the Nordic model is primarily propped up by public-owned natural resource extraction

Nordic, not Norwegian. Sweden, for instance, isn’t particularly dependent on mining and isn’t an energy economy.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#148
post #21
post #7

As a Fastmail customer: great! More power to them. If anything, any negative reaction by Fastmail, the corporation will act as a signal for me to start thinking about moving away. You know a company is morally bankrupt if they fight their employees unionizing. I don't think Fastmail will do that though.

As a Fastmail customer (and software developer who is unfamiliar with how unions would/will work in this space), why would I not already be concerned? My first impression is "man, they must not be treating their employees that well if they decided they needed to bring in a third party to help them negotiate." However - I'm not well versed in this area and willing to learn - why is this a 'good' sign?

It is potentially a good sign if Fastmail management voluntarily recognizes the union - that would imply that management and employees are on relatively good terms and the union is not asking for enormous changes.

Even if you love your company, love how you're treated, and don't want anything to change, forming a union still gives you two big advantages. First, it gives employees more influence and voice over the future of the organization, and second it protects the current conditions you love so much and makes it much more difficult for management (which can change at any time) to take them away in the future.

Here's one illustrative example: the staff of Politico and E&E News announce they are unionizing (https://newsguild.org/staff-of-politico-ee-news-are-unionizi...). Why?

> “We want to establish certainty and codify all of the things that we like about E&E into this new world order,” said reporter Emma Dumain. “E&E News is the most family-friendly newsroom I’ve ever worked in,” she said. “I feel supported by my editors as a working parent and that support helps me be a better journalist.” She wants to make sure everyone has the same support, no matter who their editors are or who owns the company.

> Leah Nylen, who has been involved in four company sales over 15 years, said that each one led to changes in benefits, bosses and sometimes layoffs. The day the Politico sale to Axel Springer closed, management informed workers that because of an oversight their 401K would be frozen for the rest of 2021. “If employees had had a seat at the table, I doubt something as important as our retirement and healthcare savings would have been missed,” Nylen said.

Less than two weeks later, management voluntarily recognizes the union: https://newsguild.org/politico-ee-staffers-win-union-recogni.... Everyone seems pretty happy.

> With union recognition nailed down, Organizing Committee members immediately began informing coworkers about the new rights that brings. A legal protection known as “status quo” requires management to maintain the same wages, hours and working conditions that existed when the union was formed, unless they negotiate an agreement with the union or reach a final contract. “Just a week-and-a-half after going public, we have all of these new protections,” Snyder said.

How's it going two years later? Well, not great honestly, they still haven't agreed on a contract, but Politico is still going strong and I imagine most people there are still happy with their decision to unionize.

Here's an article about voluntary union recognition: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/voluntary-recogniti.... This is not an unbiased source, but you can ignore the framing if you want and just use it as a big collection of links to voluntary union recognition examples.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#149
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions don't always indicate there is a problem in need of solving. It's just a group of employees agreeing to bargain collectively with their employer, which helps balance out the negotiation power between employees and the employer and creates a stable, well-defined employment relationship.

I struggle to imagine a scenario where employees would unionize despite already feeling like they are treated fairly. The union/employer relationship is inherently hostile. The whole idea is that unionized employees can threaten production/profits as negotiation leverage. Choosing that path means the employees have already given up on cooperation based on goodwill. It must take a very sour relationship to reach that…

> The union/employer relationship is inherently hostile.

Definitely not how it works in Europe. Unions make it easier for companies to have predictable relationships with their workers, and sector-wide unions mean that a company doesn't have to worry about a labor agreement putting it at a competitive disadvantage.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#150

Also a Fastmail customer and prounion. I'll be watching this closely. I have been ecstatic about the quality of service. Fingers crossed management does the right thing and retains their customers and employees.

Bron seems like a good CEO. He's come up through the ranks at FM, so hopefully he's fully onboard with the workers. I had an account when they first got off the ground, survived the Opera days, and built their little email empire. I followed Bron and RobN on Twitter and on blogs.

If I lived in a place where there was an IT union like the Communications Workers of America union that covered IT people, I'd join. They are in a battle at the moment: https://cwa-union.org/news/cwa-leaders-and-federal-call-cent...

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