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Fastmail Employees Form a Union

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Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#121

Post by ath3nd »

pc86 wrote: post #71
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a free market. Corporations perform collective bargaining. Eliminate collective bargaining for a corporations, and then it would make sense to see things on an equal playing field. The reason why employees jump from one company to another for salary boosts is because a corporation collectively bargains for salary, and this happens less so between different companies. When an employee can just as easily pit o…

Companies coordinating pay and benefits, anti-poaching agreements, etc. are all anti-competitive and illegal. So I'm not sure "corporations perform collective bargaining" is accurate.

Have you not seen the coordinated layoffs in tech the last 1.5 years? How is that not collective bargaining against tech talent?

They all used every excuse they have: overhiring, wars, inflation (which they partially helped create) to flood the market TOGETHER, thereby reducing the price of our labor. All while racking in record profits. All that perfectly legal, all that a form of them collectively bargaining to lower our labor value.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#122

Post by pseudalopex »

dagw wrote: post #97

Slightly off topic, but could someone explain why employees in the US keep having to form their own union at each company, rather than the employees just joining an existing union? If I wanted to join a union where live, I'd just pick a relevant union, go to their home page, and click 'join'.

Commonly US workers form local branches of existing unions. Federal law mandated local branches to limit union power.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#123

Post by patmorgan23 »

dagw wrote: post #97

Slightly off topic, but could someone explain why employees in the US keep having to form their own union at each company, rather than the employees just joining an existing union? If I wanted to join a union where live, I'd just pick a relevant union, go to their home page, and click 'join'.

There's a process you have to go through for a union to gain collective bargaining rights, I can go and join a union today, but they won't have the legal right to bargain between me and my employer unless they've gone through the process to become recognized. (Companies can voluntarily recognize a union but they are legally not required to, so they don't)

Also usually when you hear that some group has 'formed their own union' they're still affiliating with an existing Union take the recently formed VFX Union, they're affiliated with IATSE.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#124

Post by _cenw »

Kalium wrote: post #107
dagw wrote: post #97

Slightly off topic, but could someone explain why employees in the US keep having to form their own union at each company, rather than the employees just joining an existing union? If I wanted to join a union where live, I'd just pick a relevant union, go to their home page, and click 'join'.

Long story very short, history. Unions in the US are organized shop by shop. You can go to a union's homepage and click "JOIN TODAY!" if you wish. It just doesn't create any obligation for your employer to care.

That's how unions work by default everywhere else too. It's just more common for entire industries to be unionized (through momentum, not outright obligation) outside the US.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#125

Post by legitster »

dagw wrote: post #97

Slightly off topic, but could someone explain why employees in the US keep having to form their own union at each company, rather than the employees just joining an existing union? If I wanted to join a union where live, I'd just pick a relevant union, go to their home page, and click 'join'.

Unions in the US are a much different beast.

Counterintuitively, Unions in the US have much more legal power in some ways than international counterparts - if they get officially recognized.

But official recognition is only workplace-to-workplace and has an election process to follow:

https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/what-we-do/conduct-elections

Since it's more all-or-nothing per workplace, your membership is basically tied to the shop. And for some of these newer workplaces, they might not want the baggage that comes with some of the older unions.

Some US unions work on a "hiring hall" model where your membership is not tied to a workplace. This includes electricians and plumbers and other tradespeople. And also actors and writers. But you cannot just join them if you want to. Generally you have to follow a several-year application or apprenticeship system.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#126

Post by comprev »

Kalium wrote: post #107
dagw wrote: post #97

Slightly off topic, but could someone explain why employees in the US keep having to form their own union at each company, rather than the employees just joining an existing union? If I wanted to join a union where live, I'd just pick a relevant union, go to their home page, and click 'join'.

Long story very short, history. Unions in the US are organized shop by shop. You can go to a union's homepage and click "JOIN TODAY!" if you wish. It just doesn't create any obligation for your employer to care.

My employer (Irish company) states in the employment contract they only recognise one union here in Ireland. I'm not familiar with Irish (or EU) law on unions but it did surprise me they were so specific.

Edit: although I'm in tech I understand it covers everyone regardless of role

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#127

Post by jamiequint »

MeImCounting wrote: post #92
tobyjsullivan wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggle to imagine a scenario where employees would unionize despite already feeling like they are treated fairly. The union/employer relationship is inherently hostile. The whole idea is that unionized employees can threaten production/profits as negotiation leverage. Choosing that path means the employees have already given up on cooperation based on goodwill. It must take a very sour relationship to reach that…

This is wrong. This is like saying that the whole relationship of employer/employee is inherently hostile because the employer can threaten wages/livelihood as negotiation leverage. Unions are kind of like HR that serves the employees

Unions almost never negotiate in the long-term interest of a business, they're collectively overly-short-term-focused cash/productivity drags on a business. If unions were truly long-term focused they'd be negotiating things like employee equity, but you almost never see that. Ceteris paribus non union shops are more long-term focused and trend towards better long-term outcomes.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#128

Post by jamiequint »

r2_pilot wrote: post #112
barbazoo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fiduciary duty to do so Is that actually so?

I would argue they have a fiduciary duty to NOT do so, as "unfair labor practices" are illegal per the National Labor Relations Act.

You don't need a union to go after a company in violation of the NRLA ...

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#129

Post by tristor »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #45
nightski wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't unionize your way to a better economy, that's not how that works.

> You can't unionize your way to a better economy, that's not how that works The Nordic model begs to differ.

> The Nordic model begs to differ.

Can you expand on that? Because as an outside observer it seems that the Nordic model is primarily propped up by public-owned natural resource extraction enabling near-endless funding for universally available services and industry-wide (rather than company-wide) guarantees enforced by the unions, but nothing about the unions or their economic model drives their way to a better economy, rather they have the advantage of an external economic input unaffected by unions propping it all up.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#130

Post by pc86 »

ath3nd wrote: post #121
pc86 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies coordinating pay and benefits, anti-poaching agreements, etc. are all anti-competitive and illegal. So I'm not sure "corporations perform collective bargaining" is accurate.

Have you not seen the coordinated layoffs in tech the last 1.5 years? How is that not collective bargaining against tech talent? They all used every excuse they have: overhiring, wars, inflation (which they partially helped create) to flood the market TOGETHER, thereby reducing the price of our labor. All while racking in record profits. All that perfectly legal, all that a form of them collectively bargaining to low…

Seeing layoffs as a coordinated effort by companies to reduce labor value across the entire industry is so incredibly disconnected from reality I'm not even sure it's worth responding to.
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