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Fastmail Employees Form a Union

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Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#101

Post by babalulu »

mfer wrote: post #6

Unions are fascinating to me. When you are in a Union, part of your money goes to the union in order to, hopefully, make things better for you. This means the relationship between Union leadership and the Union members is just as important as between Union leadership and the company. Historically, we have seen Unions bring things like worker safety to the forefront and do numerous things to help people out. More rece…

While I'm pro-union in general, not all unions are equal. Some are powerful. Some are weak. Back in the 1990s I worked part-time for a unionized grocery store chain and was a member of the UFCW. There were four contract negotiations while I was there, and each time the union rolled over and approved pay cuts, decreasing the top pay rate and slashing insurance benefits. Long-time workers saw their pay cut from $11.11 an hour to $7.50 an hour over the course of a few years. Many left or took an offered buyout during the last pay cut. The last cut finally affected me as well and I took that same buyout.

No one at my store liked the union, and I have to admit that it turned me off of unions for a while. The UFCW was weak and had little bargaining power over a company that was losing money and, as we later learned, was being embezzled dry by its president.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#102

Post by carlosjobim »

capitol_ wrote: post #96
carlosjobim wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the goal to improve wages and conditions for workers or is the goal that everybody's in a union? If companies improve wages and conditions for workers to deter then from forming or joining a union, then there is no need for a union. Unless you've fallen for partisan faith.

There is also a time aspect to the equation. The goal is to improve wages and conditions for workers in a sustainable way so that the improvements are guaranteed to persist over time and not be a one time thing. Basically it's important to not lose the war by winning one battle.

That sounds like a total zero-sum perspective on life itself.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#103

Post by Vinnl »

mfer wrote: post #6

Unions are fascinating to me. When you are in a Union, part of your money goes to the union in order to, hopefully, make things better for you. This means the relationship between Union leadership and the Union members is just as important as between Union leadership and the company. Historically, we have seen Unions bring things like worker safety to the forefront and do numerous things to help people out. More rece…

It's also interesting to note that they work differently in different countries. For example:

> I was recently talking with someone where the Union negotiated pay/benefits they got was less (before and after union dues) than the surrounding non-union competition.

As far as I know this wouldn't happen in the Netherlands - unions have the legal backing to negotiate on behalf of all employees, member or not.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#104

Post by vasco »

dagw wrote: post #97

Slightly off topic, but could someone explain why employees in the US keep having to form their own union at each company, rather than the employees just joining an existing union? If I wanted to join a union where live, I'd just pick a relevant union, go to their home page, and click 'join'.

And then what other than paying the fees? I'm not pro union, but without organizing with your peers in the same company I even see less point. The main aspect that I could see in unionizing is representing the voice of the workers of the company together. If you're alone working with an external entity or if your colleagues all join different ones I can't see any way of it working.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#105

Post by BobaFloutist »

brightball wrote: post #38
taurath wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would always rather be in a union than not. Sometimes unions can be opaque or byzantine especially in older industries, but what is always opaque is management. Having fair pay and time off is something I’d rather not leave to whoever happens to sit in the chair above me, because who sits in the chair above me can change on a whim. Congrats to the Fastmail team!

As long as there's an option to not be in the union, it's completely fine IMO. In a free market, the best option will win. When non-union jobs are better than union jobs the need for the union should vanish (in theory).

If the market is free, why can't employees decide to group together and negotiate a contract with a company that precludes the hiring of non-union employees?

Sounds like freedom of association with me.

You wouldn't complain about a corporation signing an exclusive contract with another corporation (even for supplying labor), why is it a problem when it's a collective of workers imposing that restriction rather than a corporation?

Is the free market only for corporations? Does everyone else have to just take what they can get individually?

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#106

Post by Modified3019 »

elektor wrote: post #9

Congrats to the team! This might be the reminder I needed to finally subscribe. Gmail’s spam filter has been nonexistent for the past month (300+ clearly spammy email reaching my inbox).

I can’t speak to the spam filter itself, but having masked emails goes a long way to sandboxing potential spam sources. I’ve been quite happy with fastmail.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#107

Post by Kalium »

dagw wrote: post #97

Slightly off topic, but could someone explain why employees in the US keep having to form their own union at each company, rather than the employees just joining an existing union? If I wanted to join a union where live, I'd just pick a relevant union, go to their home page, and click 'join'.

Long story very short, history. Unions in the US are organized shop by shop.

You can go to a union's homepage and click "JOIN TODAY!" if you wish. It just doesn't create any obligation for your employer to care.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#108

Post by coldpie »

jedberg wrote: post #30
coldpie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of how adversarial it is, all work relationships are contractual negotiations. Without a union, one side of the equation has a boatload of money and expertise, and the other side is... you. Unions are about balancing that equation.

Sometimes employers use that money and expertise for good by figuring out ways to get employees extra benefits, for example inventing the 10 year option, which costs the company more but is better for the employee. When two people who get along negotiate a contract they don't need lawyers if they aren't trying to take advantage of the other party.

> Sometimes employers use that money and expertise for good by figuring out ways to get employees extra benefits

A union doesn't prevent that. With a union, the employees have the power and expertise to have a say in those improvements too, instead of being at the whims of their bosses.

> When two people who get along negotiate a contract they don't need lawyers

I don't really know how to respond to this... above like five employees, every employment contract is drafted by a lawyer. My employment agreement at the big company I work for now is many dozens of pages long. I tried reading it, but it's just not my area. With a union, I would know that someone on "my side" of the table, who I pay and who works for me, has had a hand in drafting it.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#110

Post by givemeethekeys »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #86
zbyte64 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of coordination that requires less representation does not have your interests in mind.

> kind of coordination that requires less representation does not have your interests in mind Take this to an extreme: a start-up. A union is overly bureaucratic. I’d wager a union doesn’t start making sense until the lowest-ranking employee ceases to have on-demand access to senior management.

That's quite small. Having worked at a few companies in the 30-50 employee mark, while it is true that I could speak to management almost any time, it was also obvious that they were very busy.
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