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Fastmail Employees Form a Union

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Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#71

Post by pc86 »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #64
brightball wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as there's an option to not be in the union, it's completely fine IMO. In a free market, the best option will win. When non-union jobs are better than union jobs the need for the union should vanish (in theory).

It's not a free market. Corporations perform collective bargaining. Eliminate collective bargaining for a corporations, and then it would make sense to see things on an equal playing field. The reason why employees jump from one company to another for salary boosts is because a corporation collectively bargains for salary, and this happens less so between different companies. When an employee can just as easily pit o…

Companies coordinating pay and benefits, anti-poaching agreements, etc. are all anti-competitive and illegal. So I'm not sure "corporations perform collective bargaining" is accurate.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#72

Post by slothtrop »

pc86 wrote: post #68
EdwardDiego wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where the Union negotiated pay/benefits they got was less (before and after union dues) than the surrounding non-union competition. Yeah, that's a common anti-union tactic. Another one is passing on any better terms negotiated with a union to non-union workers to make it look like union membership gains you nothing. Of course, when the union is gone, the largesse tends to end.

How is "I give my negotiating rights away to a union and they did a worse job negotiating than I did" a "common anti-union tactic?" It sounds like just something that happens from time to time.

That's true, but of course as a member you can pressure/vote for your union to bargain. And at any rate, most of the time union work pays better.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#73

Post by bigbillheck »

pc86 wrote: post #71
BoiledCabbage wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a free market. Corporations perform collective bargaining. Eliminate collective bargaining for a corporations, and then it would make sense to see things on an equal playing field. The reason why employees jump from one company to another for salary boosts is because a corporation collectively bargains for salary, and this happens less so between different companies. When an employee can just as easily pit o…

Companies coordinating pay and benefits, anti-poaching agreements, etc. are all anti-competitive and illegal. So I'm not sure "corporations perform collective bargaining" is accurate.

> are ... illegal.

So's murder, and yet that still happens.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#74

Post by [deleted] »

mfer wrote: post #6

Unions are fascinating to me. When you are in a Union, part of your money goes to the union in order to, hopefully, make things better for you. This means the relationship between Union leadership and the Union members is just as important as between Union leadership and the company. Historically, we have seen Unions bring things like worker safety to the forefront and do numerous things to help people out. More rece…

[deleted]

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#75

Post by sneeze-slayer »

pc86 wrote: post #68
EdwardDiego wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where the Union negotiated pay/benefits they got was less (before and after union dues) than the surrounding non-union competition. Yeah, that's a common anti-union tactic. Another one is passing on any better terms negotiated with a union to non-union workers to make it look like union membership gains you nothing. Of course, when the union is gone, the largesse tends to end.

How is "I give my negotiating rights away to a union and they did a worse job negotiating than I did" a "common anti-union tactic?" It sounds like just something that happens from time to time.

Typically because the company is more benevolent to non-union workers in this case so to try to incentivize workers to not join or leave the union. If there was no union involved, then the company wouldn't be so benevolent to non-union workers.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#76

Post by ath3nd »

jedberg wrote: post #30
coldpie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of how adversarial it is, all work relationships are contractual negotiations. Without a union, one side of the equation has a boatload of money and expertise, and the other side is... you. Unions are about balancing that equation.

Sometimes employers use that money and expertise for good by figuring out ways to get employees extra benefits, for example inventing the 10 year option, which costs the company more but is better for the employee. When two people who get along negotiate a contract they don't need lawyers if they aren't trying to take advantage of the other party.

Corporations are not people.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#77

Post by shortrounddev2 »

Freak_NL wrote: post #7

As a Fastmail customer: great! More power to them. If anything, any negative reaction by Fastmail, the corporation will act as a signal for me to start thinking about moving away. You know a company is morally bankrupt if they fight their employees unionizing. I don't think Fastmail will do that though.

> You know a company is morally bankrupt if they fight their employees unionizing

Any company would oppose their employees unionizing; they have a fiduciary duty to do so

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#78

Post by [deleted] »

mvexel wrote: post #24

LinkedIn says Fastmail has 116 U.S. based employees. I may be completely off base here, but if you're that small an org and employees feel the need to form a union, wouldn't that indicate a significant problem with company culture?

[deleted]

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#79

Post by jjj123 »

thadt wrote: post #21
Freak_NL wrote: post #7

As a Fastmail customer: great! More power to them. If anything, any negative reaction by Fastmail, the corporation will act as a signal for me to start thinking about moving away. You know a company is morally bankrupt if they fight their employees unionizing. I don't think Fastmail will do that though.

As a Fastmail customer (and software developer who is unfamiliar with how unions would/will work in this space), why would I not already be concerned? My first impression is "man, they must not be treating their employees that well if they decided they needed to bring in a third party to help them negotiate." However - I'm not well versed in this area and willing to learn - why is this a 'good' sign?

The best time to form a union is when things are going well at a company. It’s easier to use your union to solidify existing benefits than to ask for new ones.

You unionize in the good times so you’re protected in the bad times.

(Not saying that’s what happened here, just saying you cannot really judge what unionization means from the outside)

As for why that’s a good thing in general, that depends on how you feel about unions. If I have the choice between union made goods and non-union made goods, I buy the union made goods. So I’m always happy to see a company unionize.

Re: Fastmail Employees Form a Union

#80

Post by codemac »

ath3nd wrote: post #28
nightski wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't unionize your way to a better economy, that's not how that works.

You actually can! If the government doesn't protect your wages, you are left at the mercy and greed of capital. I can guarantee you that means you will be thrown under the bus the first opportunity they see fit, as soon as it makes a financial sense. Look at the avalanche of layoffs that started with Twitter. Now the market is flooded with engineers, which makes our individual bargaining position worse. Employers not…

Is fastmail in your mind a megacorp?

Most things you said do not seem to relate to a small company with ~400 people according to linkedin.

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