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Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#601
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this is true. a) Spotify didn't invent music streaming. There were many services e.g. Pandora that were doing in the years before. It was a pretty obvious idea once devices had faster bandwidth. b) Apple didn't steal their idea. They acquired Beats who had launched a similar service soon after Spotify. c) Apple Music isn't privileged. It comes pre-installed but otherwise you can delete the app and use Spotify…

Apple Music is privileged when it comes to Siri. I currently have both a Spotify and Apple Music subscription, and one of the main reasons I prefer Apple Music, aside from shuffle not playing the same 20 songs in a 2000 song playlist, is the great hands free functionality. I can add songs to playlist, play a song next instead of adding it to the end of the queue (which is more of Spotify STILL not having deque suppor…

You can absolutely use Siri to control Spotify—both on the phone itself and over AirPlay.

Any functionality that Apple Music allows over Siri that Spotify does not is, at this point, up to Spotify to implement.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're talking here about literally the most valuable public company in the world and a product (iPhone) used on average dozens of times and several hours daily by nearly 50% of the US population. I'm generally a free market kind of guy but even I admit that at this scale it is OK to apply different standards.

Speaking as a life-long Apple user who mostly thinks the rampant attacks on Apple are basically the same as the ones people have been throwing for 30+ years, just with "Apple is dying, no one should use their stuff" replaced with "Apple is too big/tyrannical, no one should use their stuff"... I agree. But. The solution to that is to get antitrust regulators to step in and use the force of the law to change things. No…

There is no security vulnerability, that is FUD. They're charging a subscription to fix Apple's bugs that intentionally cripple communication communication with Android phones for Apple's own benefit and nobody else's.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the product is so great why doesn't Apple make it available on more platforms? The answer is because it's not a product, it's a marketing tool. And a very successful one based on the widespread bullying it has caused.

Give me a fucking break, “bullying” for Christ’s sake! They invented a nice thing, made it available on their hardware, and now people like yourself who refuse to buy their hardware for whatever reason are salty you can’t play on the platform so result to juvenile arguments like “I’m being bullied” to try and get your own way. It’s fucking ridiculous and you need to grow up. EDIT: that should be “resort to”.

Apple did not "invent" instant messaging.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#604
post #543

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> as an iPhone users I feel sometimes feel left out because... I firmly refuse to give my personal ID to all theses companies just to keep in touch You're not left out because of what kind of phone you use. You're left out because you refuse to use messaging apps that are available for your phone.

And yet here we are, in a thread about a service abusing Apple's servers to make something available to the opposite crowd who feels left out because they refuse to use messaging apps that are available for their phones.

Look I think Beeper Mini and the whole thing is silly, but no, Android users are not refusing to use the apps available for their phones. iMessage is not available for Android.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#605

How is this not getting flagged by regulatory bodies as blatantly monopolistic behavior?

To be monopolistic, Apple would have to have a monopoly in messaging, which they surely don’t.

Why do people continue to think that you have to have a monopoly to be monopolistic? Also, Apple does have a monopoly. They have a monopoly on all devices that can communicate through iMessage.

If that should be taken up by the DOJ or some other body is up to your interpretation of the law.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#606
post #550
post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's if iMessage can't reach Apple's servers. Otherwise that wouldn't make sense; simply being without a cell/wifi signal, or having your phone off, for a few hours, would mean anyone messaging you would be sending a bunch of SMS fallback messages.

It is how it works, after a certain timeout where it can't be delivered to a device it will fallback to SMS. The exact length of the timeout is not public. See https://discussions.apple.com/thread/8063349?sortBy=best

I have no idea if this is true or not, but I'll note that isn't Apple saying that. It's a random user on an Apple forum.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#607

How is this not getting flagged by regulatory bodies as blatantly monopolistic behavior?

Is Southwest Airlines not carrying luggage from United for free blatantly monopolistic behavior?

I am struggling to see how this is comparable. Allowing iPhone users to talk to Android users through iMessage is a benefit to iPhone users. iPhone users get more end-to-end encrypted messages.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really a problem? I seriously doubt many people are going to leave someone out because they use an Android phone. I certainly won't because I like communicating with people and people are far more important than technology.

One Android user means you can no longer send images, video, gifs, or emoji. You can’t react to messages. Sending and receiving no longer works on wifi, so it doesn’t work well in many workplaces. SMS is a disaster, so it’s best just to leave out the green bubbles.

Just to add to this, iPhones send potato quality video to Android. I am constantly reminding my family that uses iOS that they have to send an iCloud link.

The videos are genuinely useless, I don't know why Apple bothers. It sends like 240p "90s security camera" quality video. I can't tell who anyone is, I once thought a bear in a video was a wolf.

Iirc, Android pops up some kind of "this video is too large, do you want to share it with Photos instead?" modal that converts it to a Photos link instead of sharing directly. That's not perfect, but it's a damn site better than sending a video that you know is useless.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#609

It seems like the effort Apple is putting in stopping this is an indicator of how many people buy iPhones just for being in their iMessage circles. Which is only possible as long as Apple keeps snubbing RCS and making messaging painful to non-iPhone users. If, say, a random cheap Motorola with Beeper could keep them in the same groups as before, Apple would probably lose a (small) chunks of its clients.

If any company with a restricted service exposed to the internet found someone illegally gaining access by spoofing device IDs or API keys, the engineers who noticed would immediately shut down access and inform management, so they can run it up the chain to legal. There need be no other motivation beyond preventing illegal access to a computer system. I doubt Beeper Mini is on the radar of anyone high up at Apple. S…

This is simply not true. Frankly, my first instinct would be to let it go if they're not causing issues. I certainly wouldn't start swinging the ban hammer around without knowing that the hell the traffic is.

It could be a bug in our client code, and I could be cutting off paying customers. It could be some weird and/or poorly written software by a customer. It could be some bizarre WAN accelerator issue at some giant company with real devices.

I would presume that at least someone at Apple knows that the traffic is from Beeper, and what Beeper is. I would expect that it hit the desk of a mid-tier Director at least (would you or your manager be comfortable implementing heuristic blocking without telling a director?).

It still may not be a strategic decision, but I wouldn't assume that decision makers aren't aware of what's going on.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#610
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a trivial cost that people don’t want to pay. Sadly it can’t be run as some kind of ala-carte computation that can scale-to-zero like a Lambda function can, because it needs to be an active connection-oriented daemon that keeps per-connection state — i.e. something that always maintains at least one real OS thread, holding open real OS sockets, on the same machine (so that those sockets don’t break at the TCP le…

> why is there no Lambda-like serverless compute substrate that allows your function to speak a connection-oriented protocol, by externalizing the connection-hold-open and per-connection book-keeping state into the routing layer, such that your own function in the system could scale-to-zero? Fastly Fanout + Compute? (disclosure: Fanout tech lead)

Not generalized, AFAICT; from reading the docs, Fanout just does websockets, no?

I'm talking about a routing layer that could allow a serverless function to be the backend for an arbitrary stateful TCP protocol, e.g. IRC, SMTP, FTP, PGSQL, etc; where the service doesn't need to add support for a new L7 protocol for functions to use it; instead, the support for the L7 protocol is part of the function, the same way it's part of a regular network daemon.

I would imagine that this would work like the following:

- the logic for the L7 protocol's connection state-transitions lives within the stateless function;

- each call to the stateless function is handed the pre-transition L7 state, and returns the new post-transition L7 state, with the routing layer persisting this state between calls. (Compare/contrast: Erlang gen_server state management, between the gen_server module [routing layer] and the user-supplied delegate module [compute layer].) Any arbitrary compute node can then handle each "step" of the computation... but only one compute "worker" at a time will ever be tasked with handling messages for a given connection, because each call requires an input L7 state, which depends on the output L7 state of the previous compute-step;

- the function declares in its metadata what L4 protocols it accepts (TCP/UDP, maybe SCTP or DTLS, or TCP+TLS, etc); the routing layer then manages flows for these as portable persisted state-machine-state resources on virtual IPs owned collectively by the routing layer mesh — similar to how a distributed wireless AP or eNodeB manages established flows across its listeners;

- likely, the L4 state lives in the same persisted (distributed KV?) store as the L7 state, but just isn't passed back to the serverless function — except for maybe SNI info in the case of TLS. (This would make sense to me because you're never going to update the L7 state without also updating the L4 state. I can imagine a connection-listener state machine that touches the "L4 part" of a backing data-structure in response to most L4 packets, but then, when it's built up enough of a buffer to have a complete L4 message†, it would pass the message to the L7 and get an L7 update in response, and then commit a new L4+L7 state together.)

- And yes, the †ed part above means that another required part of the serverless function's metadata, would be a definition in some language of a lexer/parser for recognizing+extracting toplevel L7 messages from the carrier stream, such that the routing layer would then use this lexer/parser to know when it has one or more lexically-complete messages in its buffer to be pushed down atomically to the compute layer. (I say "lexer/parser" because mostly this code wouldn't have to parse messages — the L7 is still receiving just a stream of bytes it's expected to parse itself; but it's required to be "just a stream of bytes" sliced to consist of exactly one L7 message per call. So for most protocols, this would be cheap: most stateful protocols are either "newline is always toplevel break" or they're binary length-prefixed, and these can both be delimited by a dumb lexer, or even a fixed-buffer DSP-alike. Sadly, though, some stateful protocols require full parsing to know where each message ends. So the routing layer would need to support both — probably with a lot of "function compilation time" grunt-work put into recognizing when the routing layer can apply less than a full Turing-complete parser to the task.) Probably for most protocols this could look like an abstract-DSL version of something with capabilities equivalent to a Wireshark dissector definition or eBPF bytecode; and that in turn could be abstracted over with something like a "buildpack" / "cloud-init" sort of strategy, where instead of supplying the code yourself, you supply the URL of a repo that contains the code.

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