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Voyager 1 stops communicating with Earth

cnn.com

521–530 of 649 posts

Re: Voyager 1 stops communicating with Earth

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We will be able to crack today’s encryption algorithms in the future because we’ll find flaws in them. Big if. We already knew how to design good and strong symmetric ciphers way back in the 1970s. One of the standard blocking blocks of modern symmetric cipher is called the Feistel network , which was used to create DES. Despite that it's the first widely used encryption standard, even today there's essentially no…

Placing no time constraints, my gut tells me it’s almost inevitable those breakthroughs will eventually come. Either in mathematics or quantum computing. Or both. Namely I’d ask when not if. My opinion is that short of the one time pad, we won’t come up with provably unbreakable schemes.

> Namely I’d ask when not if.

The big assumption of cryptography is that, there exists some problems that are not provably unsolvable but difficult enough for almost any practical purposes. To engineers, no assumption can be more reasonable than that. Given unlimited time, it's a provable fact that any (brand new) processor with asynchronous input signal will malfunction due to metastability in digital circuits, it's also a provable fact that metastability is a fundamental flaw in all digital electronics - but computers still work because the MTBF can be made as large as necessary, longer than the lifetime of the Solar system if you really want to.

So the only problem here is, how long is the MTBF of today's building blocks of symmetric ciphers? If it's on the scale of 100 years or so, sure, everything is breakable if you're patient. If it's on the scale of 1000 years, well, breaking it is "only" a matter of time. But if it's on the scale of 10000 years, I don't believe it's relevant to the human civilization (as we know it) anymore - your standard may vary.

The problem is that computerized cryptography is a young subject, the best data we have so far is symmetric ciphers tend to be more secure than asymmetric ones. We know that Feistel networks have an excellent safety record and remain unbroken after 50 years. We also know that we can break almost all widely used asymmetric ciphers today with large quantum computers if we can build one, but we can't do the same to symmetric ones - even the ancient DES is unbreakable if it's redesigned to use 256-bit keys. So while nobody knows for sure, but most rational agents will certainly assign higher and higher confidence every year - until a breakthrough occurs.

> My opinion is that short of the one time pad, we won’t come up with provably unbreakable schemes.

Many mathematicians and some physicists may prefer a higher standard of security than "lowly" practical engineers. This is the main motivation behind quantum cryptography - rather than placing security on empirical observations, its slogan is that the security is placed on the laws of physics. Many have pointed that the this slogan is misleading: any practical form of quantum cryptography must exist in the engineering sense, and there will certainly be some forms of security flaws such as sensor imperfection or at least side channels... That being said, I certainly understand why it looks so attractive to many people if you're the kind of person who really worry about provability.

Re: Voyager 1 stops communicating with Earth

#522
post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orbit means going very fast around something in a circular motion. These particles are heading directly streaming out from the sun, not going round it. As I understand it it’s where these particles reach equilibrium with the stellar medium. The sun is like a comet at a large enough scale, with a long tail of particles as it moves through the galaxy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliosphere

The particles don’t meaningfully interact, they aren’t dense enough.

They interact via the electromagnetic force.

Re: Voyager 1 stops communicating with Earth

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So long as it isn't impossible, the improbable becomes inevitable at scales as vast as the universe.

Not really. Very large improbabilities require a lot more time than what the universe has been around for.

Yes really. These improbabilities are guesswork, and their size is unknown. We know a spacefaring civilization has happened once, so the probability is far greater than you allow, and time obviously sufficient.

Re: Voyager 1 stops communicating with Earth

#524
post #23
post #6

Voyager 1 is so far away that it takes 22.5 hours for commands sent from Earth to reach the spacecraft. Additionally, the team must wait 45 hours to receive a response. I’m guessing “hotfix” commits don’t exist in this domain

The use of "additionally" is weird here. A full roundtrip is 45 hours. It doesn't take 22.5 + 45 hours to receive a response. 45 = 22.5 + 22.5.

I wonder if it was messed with in editing or something, like maybe they have a style guide rule against long sentences.

Anything to merge the ideas together would make it clear that it is just one phenomenon, for example.

> Voyager 1 is so far away that it takes 22.5 hours for commands sent from Earth to reach the spacecraft, and so the team must wait 45 hours to receive a response.

Re: Voyager 1 stops communicating with Earth

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see where you're getting this from? It's so blatant that things are only improving, the US is running so many high profile missions, SpaceX alone has launched almost 100 times this year, Starship testing is proceeding well, we're reasonably on track for a long term human presence on the Moon, we're gradually preparing for Mars, China is managing to maintain its own space station, India is closing in on its ow…

What I'm getting this from? Reading the news for the last 40 years or so. Watching the new generation and their education levels. Seeing how science is now 'the enemy' rather than the future. > SpaceX alone has launched almost 100 times this year, Starship testing is proceeding well, we're reasonably on track for a long term human presence on the Moon, we're gradually preparing for Mars, China is managing to maintain…

> What I'm getting this from? Reading the news for the last 40 years or so. Watching the new generation and their education levels. Seeing how science is now 'the enemy' rather than the future.

You're in a pit, friend. Yes, there is some backsliding in a few spots, but overall education levels are higher than ever and amazing science is happening right freakin' now (JWST, asteroid sample return missions, a real shot at putting humans on the moon again, MRNA vaccines, CRISPR...). Nothing is ever perfect and it's good to recognize that fact, but don't focus only on the bad things or you'll miss all the good things that are happening all around you.

Re: Voyager 1 stops communicating with Earth

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is wrong

At some point there were burners with speeds like 48x, and MAX reads at 48x, so the writed were in practice faster than reads (but only marginally)

This is the era I'm referring to, and I recall the difference being a bit beyond marginal. Literally the verification (i.e. read) phase of the burning sequence would take several times longer... in practice, not in terms of advertised maximums. Maybe it would read data discs at 48x but it would refuse to read audio discs beyond 8x or something like that. Same goes for ripping software like Exact Audio Copy (EAC); it could not read at high speed. And I don't think Riplock had anything to do with it, as that's a DVD thing whereas my experience dates back to CDs.

Strange hill to die on, I'm aware.

Re: Voyager 1 stops communicating with Earth

#528
post #282

One of my favorite facts ever is that Voyager 1 contains something called the Voyager Golden Record [1]. It has the following quote written: This is a present from a small, distant world, a token of our sounds, our science, our images, our music, our thoughts and our feelings. We are attempting to survive our time so we may live into yours. I get chills everytime I think about this. I hope we can recover from this ev…

I think the golden record is even more famous than the Voyager(s) themselves. At least I learned it in my childhood (together with Pioneer plaque -- I just noticed they're not the same thing!)

So dumb. It's free publicity for the rest of human existence. They should have been begging to have the song included.

Even a small chance of aliens becoming Beatles fans and coming to Earth to trade unimaginable wealth in exchange for licensing rights.

Re: Voyager 1 stops communicating with Earth

#529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, the future of space travel and exploration is very bright.

I'm not so sure about that. Humanity is turning ever more inward and education is getting worse and worse with the peak somewhere in the 1950's. If we have a bright future in space travel none of the countries with launch capability today look like they will be the ones driving it.

This is only true in the western world. Globally, education has been trending upwards, at least until the pandemic.

What is happening is a noticeable decline in the levels of trust in education and science. Generally, in the rich world, education used to be assumed to be a necessarily good allocation of resources, and whether you accessed it or not was largely a function of your wealth. Now, in some pockets of the world, this is no longer true.

I also think that space travel will only see a revival in public interest if it provides viable economic value or becomes a renewed front for competing nationalism, neither of which appear to be extremely likely in the short term. Up to that point, I think it'll continue to be a playground for billionaires.

Re: Voyager 1 stops communicating with Earth

#530
post #434
post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was communicated by radio at any point, the message was technically broadcast to pick up by sufficiently advanced receivers...

Approximately 1000 years to get to Omicron Persei 8, according to Futurama

Well ahead of the golden disk then.
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