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Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#551

Post by api »

paxys wrote: post #427
theshackleford wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of people don’t understand the absolutely insane (and totally stupid) power of “blue text” in social settings In America. The rest of the world doesnt give a shit. > Break that and the phone market gets competitive again. See above.

Most of America also doesn't give a shit. This whole blue/green bubble thing is a story only among nerds and some tech elitists.

Oh summer child…

"Green text" will get you turned down for dates and ostracized from friend groups, especially in middle and high school but even (for dating) into adulthood in some cases.

Yes it's stupid, but people have turned far dumber things into status symbols like gigantic massively overpriced pedestrian-crusher trucks.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#552

Post by sgerenser »

nvy wrote: post #110
turquoisevar wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The better analogy is using a fake ID to get the locksmith to give you a copy of the house key. The house is Apple’s servers The fake ID is spoofed device serials and UUIDs The copy of the house key is the authentication blob Nobody would blink twice if a prosecutor threw the book at someone like that. Still, somehow, I’m sure many here would complain if the DOJ would prosecute Beeper for violating the CFAA by commit…

Pretty sure they're buying actual Mac minis and using those device IDs. If you have evidence to the contrary I would be very interested in seeing it.

I didn’t see anywhere that they’re buying any real hardware for this product for purpose of gaining legitimate device IDs. Source?

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#553

Post by leonheld »

msh wrote: post #548
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how many people buy iPhones just for being in their iMessage circles This is news only in the US. Literally everywhere else in the world (where iPhones don't have a supermajority market share), third-party apps like WhatsApp, Telegram, Line, WeChat, Facebook Messenger, etc have been used for the past decade, with no problems whatsoever. My own WhatsApp account has been active for a decade , with chats going back ex…

I think saying its US only is oversimplifying, its at least also true in some european markets.

Which ones? I have friends (young and old) all over Europe and everyone uses WhatsApp. Everywhere I've been in Europe defaults to WhatsApp, even for business communication.

Like, it's n=1, but still, my experience is quite broad.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#555

Post by ethanbond »

Jtsummers wrote: post #408
ethanbond wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I pay for iMessage. You’re just arguing for the right to use products for free, and in Beeper’s case to create monetized products that use others’ products for free.

> What? I pay for iMessage. I doubt that. iMessage is a free service if you have almost any Apple OS product (iOS, iPadOS, macOS). You aren't making ongoing payments for the iMessage service. You could say you paid for iMessage in that you bought a device that worked with it. But you do not pay for iMessage.

Do you think this is a relevant point somehow?

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#556

Post by timmg »

cunidev wrote: post #539

It seems like the effort Apple is putting in stopping this is an indicator of how many people buy iPhones just for being in their iMessage circles. Which is only possible as long as Apple keeps snubbing RCS and making messaging painful to non-iPhone users. If, say, a random cheap Motorola with Beeper could keep them in the same groups as before, Apple would probably lose a (small) chunks of its clients.

The thing that bothers me is that Apple’s actions hurt iPhone owners. Making it harder for them to communicate with non-iPhones is a bad experience. Intentionally making their product worse to encourage lock-in is anti-user.

I’m oddly surprised that iPhone owners are ok with this.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#557

Post by ethanbond »

makeitdouble wrote: post #436
ethanbond wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I pay for iMessage. You’re just arguing for the right to use products for free, and in Beeper’s case to create monetized products that use others’ products for free.

I'm arguing that the crux of the issue is a lot more than just "why don't they use something else ?" The same way you see value in iMessage, other users also see value in iMessage. You may want them to go away, but to my eyes that's the same weight as other users wanting to be there. I'll be standing in the corner with the popcorn to see how it turns out. On what is paid and what is free, Beeper mini is free, iMessag…

Beeper Mini wasn’t free. It became free the first time it was shut off.

Yes I’m sure “can anyone use other services as their product backends for free, directly against the TOS of said service” is going to be a really interesting and complicated legal question…

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#558

Post by beeboobaa »

mngdtt wrote: post #279
beeboobaa wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple could also push out an update tomorrow that would end this once and for all by utilizing device attestation and leveraging Secure Enclave More proof that Remote Attestation is evil and does not exist to serve the user.

As a user, I am very well served by remote attestation when it is used to stop cheaters in videogames or spammers in messaging platforms.

Both of those are issues that can be solved server side if the company actually cared. They don't, and instead want to steal your freedom so they can push DRM.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#559

Post by myaccountonhn »

rewgs wrote: post #102
dataangel wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not entitled, it's pushing back against a gigantic company exploiting network effects to create user lock-in, because that's easier than competing on the merit of your products.

Speaking for myself, I think iMessage is a good product, and it's one of the (many) reasons I use Apple devices as daily drivers. You make it sound like people only use iMessage because of the network effect/lock-in, and clearly aren't considering that perhaps said network effect exists at least in part because iMessage is just...good.

It's fine to use it if you think it's good, hell it probably is. What isn't nice is when I get forced to buy an iphone start using imessage because everyone else is when I don't want that, which is what is happening.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#560

Post by withinboredom »

vineyardmike wrote: post #499
StressedDev wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is ostracizing you because you do not own an iPhone, you probably want to avoid that person. I have never met anyone who would do this and frankly, only an extremely nasty person would do this. I am mean seriously, why ostracized someone because they use a different type of phone?

Do you forget being a teenager? /s It's not simply a MeanGirls experience of not being cool enough. Most Americans don't use or have 3rd party apps like WhatsApp, so most people will fall-back to SMS, which is objectively a much worse experience. I feel like the adult equivalent is getting group dinner with a friend with severe allergies or dietary restrictions. You care about your friend, and you want to invite them…

This is an adulting problem. Most of my adult friends use WhatsApp around me. So, our kids use WhatsApp because that is how they communicate with us. So, the "actual" solution is to start using WhatsApp (or whatever) and get your friends to do it. Then force your kids to do it ... then bam, iMessage no longer matters.
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