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Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#511

Post by pashky »

unsigner wrote: post #479

These comments mention spam a lot as a reason to stick with iMessage. What kind of spam are people (presumably in the US) getting outside of iMessage? I’m in the EU, I get very little SMS spam (mostly for telecom’s clumsy attempts to find more ways to monetize me). I also have Viber, Telegram, and FB messenger, and the spam is virtually zero on Viber (less than an “offer” a month, and it’s from the likes of Coca Cola…

I'm getting somewhat noticeable (once every few weeks) phishing attempts on Telegram and Instagram, less frequent on WhatsApp. On Instagram they sit unobtrusively in "requests" and disappear after some time, in Telegram and Whatsapp they do pop up and have to be deleted.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#512

Post by vintermann »

Twisell wrote: post #485
vintermann wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nice of you, but by all accounts from the US (where iphone is dominant): Yes, it's a problem. The visual marking and decreased integration/service towards users of non-iphones is pretty obviously part of why Apple has such a big phone market share in the US - if not, they wouldn't fight tooth and nail to keep those anti-features. There's plenty of examples of Apple being quite open and friendly to integration…

Well in Europe Android is dominating the market (but with a very fragmented experience depending on Android version). The result is that as an iPhone users I feel sometimes feel left out because different friends circles on Android turn to different secured messaging services (WhatsApp, FB messenger, Telegram, Signal, etc...). I firmly refuse to give my personal ID to all theses companies just to keep in touch so I o…

I can understand not trusting FB, but you have to give out the ID you want people to be able to find you by. What you give to Signal is probably less than what's in the phone directory.

> I wish others services just did the same.

Signal did, then someone convinced them that the risk of accidentally sending an SMS which you thought were an encrypted message, was bad enough to break messaging integration on Android.

I wonder if whoever convinced them of that maybe didn't want it to be so convenient to use.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#513

Post by whyoh »

Twisell wrote: post #485
vintermann wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nice of you, but by all accounts from the US (where iphone is dominant): Yes, it's a problem. The visual marking and decreased integration/service towards users of non-iphones is pretty obviously part of why Apple has such a big phone market share in the US - if not, they wouldn't fight tooth and nail to keep those anti-features. There's plenty of examples of Apple being quite open and friendly to integration…

Well in Europe Android is dominating the market (but with a very fragmented experience depending on Android version). The result is that as an iPhone users I feel sometimes feel left out because different friends circles on Android turn to different secured messaging services (WhatsApp, FB messenger, Telegram, Signal, etc...). I firmly refuse to give my personal ID to all theses companies just to keep in touch so I o…

>Apple kept conformance with SMS/MMS standards from the beginning and added a secure layer on top.

iMessage is not a "secure layer on top", it's a totally separate proprietary protocol and it requires an Apple account to work. It just happens to run in the same app as SMS/MMS messages, which has its pros and cons.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#514

Post by pashky »

I'm your typical Whatsapp on iPhone user from Europe who's here just for a good drama, but blimey if this guy's rhetoric isn't sooo repetitive and cringey now.

Like, my dude, it was an impressive technical hack, and you really pulled the tiger's whiskers when you went to prod with it, but dressing it in politics and greater mission and "freedom" with bald eagles and shit? Meh.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#515

Post by realusername »

Grustaf wrote: post #506
realusername wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what stops me from buying a second hand mac or a second hand iphone (for $150 each) and start 'doing business' with iMessage? Nothing, that's why iMessage is full of spam already. What scammers do is buying boxes of old half broken iphones and they turn them into relays exactly as you said.

I have never received a single spam message through iMessage, but regardless. If they have to keep buying new phones all the time as they get blacklisted, in order to keep spamming, the economics of spamming changes.

That does raise the bar a little bit but it's probably mitigated by the combination of targeting higher spending users and the additional trust iMessage provides.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#516

Post by fennecfoxy »

StressedDev wrote: post #477
standardUser wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh, it is beyond depressing to imagine Apple bigwigs sitting around discussing ways to make absolutely certain teens keep getting ostracized until they buy their overpriced product.

If someone is ostracizing you because you do not own an iPhone, you probably want to avoid that person. I have never met anyone who would do this and frankly, only an extremely nasty person would do this. I am mean seriously, why ostracized someone because they use a different type of phone?

First of all you forget what it's like being a teen/young person I guess, or perhaps your personality is different from most, but that sort of social pressure is quite tough on people.

Apple also relies on the path of least resistance as well, if someone is having a poor experience in a group chat with their iPhone friends...it just becomes "easy" for them to choose an iPhone the next time they change phones.

Look at other companies, Microsoft porting Office etc to MacOS, Google services like maps gmail etc available on the iPhone. It's only Apple that walls their tech in so that it's only on iPhone - they don't care about profit lost to not expanding their reach because they reinforce their own platform.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#517

Post by viraptor »

denkmoon wrote: post #448
rezonant wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Apple embraced texting by supporting SMS, then extended it by forcing all the text conversations that they could into their own proprietary infrastructure, and is extinguishing it by using punitive product design to create pressure on communities of people to all use their products so that everything goes over their proprietary network. I don't want an over the top chat app, I just want to text people.

>Because Apple embraced texting by supporting SMS what? sms is a basic phone function, how is supporting sms "embracing" anything? If you, as an iOS user, don't want to use iMessage you simply go flip the toggle. If you "just want to text people", it's just that easy. Really.

Making iMessage which handles SMS, but by default transparently upgrades you to another protocol is the first two parts of EEE. Realistically, no normies flip that switch.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#518

Post by whyoh »

vintermann wrote: post #512
Twisell wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in Europe Android is dominating the market (but with a very fragmented experience depending on Android version). The result is that as an iPhone users I feel sometimes feel left out because different friends circles on Android turn to different secured messaging services (WhatsApp, FB messenger, Telegram, Signal, etc...). I firmly refuse to give my personal ID to all theses companies just to keep in touch so I o…

I can understand not trusting FB, but you have to give out the ID you want people to be able to find you by. What you give to Signal is probably less than what's in the phone directory. > I wish others services just did the same. Signal did, then someone convinced them that the risk of accidentally sending an SMS which you thought were an encrypted message, was bad enough to break messaging integration on Android. I…

Signal is strongly focused on secure communication, so it never made any sense for it to support SMS/MMS.

I think bundling different protocols in the same app is a bad idea in general. Besides the security and functionality problems, it just creates confusion. The whole iMessage/bubble-color mess wouldn't exist if Apple made it clear to their users that the iMessage protocol is different from SMS and incompatible with most phones.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#519

Post by kelnos »

unsigner wrote: post #479

These comments mention spam a lot as a reason to stick with iMessage. What kind of spam are people (presumably in the US) getting outside of iMessage? I’m in the EU, I get very little SMS spam (mostly for telecom’s clumsy attempts to find more ways to monetize me). I also have Viber, Telegram, and FB messenger, and the spam is virtually zero on Viber (less than an “offer” a month, and it’s from the likes of Coca Cola…

I think everyone's spam experience on the various platforms just tends to vary a lot. Some people see iMessage spam, while others swear they haven't ever gotten one. Ditto for all the other services.

I see SMS/MMS spam in spurts; I'll get one or two spam messages a day for a week or so, and then nothing for months. On Whatsapp, I get a few spam messages a month. I've never seen spam on GChat or FB Messenger. I don't use Viber or Telegram, so can't speak to those.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#520

Post by ChildOfChaos »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #367
unstatusthequo wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple owns the delivery mechanism. I don’t believe that a third party using their ecosystem will last long. Nor do I want it. There are plenty of cross-platform things out there. Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp. Why does everyone care so much? Google can paint their Android robot blue. Then maybe all this silliness will end?

> Why does everyone care so much? Happy to explain. First thought, why do you care so much? > Nor do I want it. Why? What about exclusivity makes the world better? Why shouldn't I be able to communicate well with someone using an Apple device? Why should someone using an Apple device not want someone to communicate well with them? Sure there are other systems. But switching costs are so high. Especially with iMessage…

What a complete load of nonsense.

iMessage is apples system, we live in an app world, you don’t have to use it, most people use WhatsApp so just download that, Google users have to download it too because it’s a third party service. How is downloading a free app a high switching cost? You can use it alongside iMessage. Most people use

There is plenty of freedom of choice without a third party app hacking into another system. Get a grip.

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