301–310 of 665 posts
When Ma Bell didn't let people use third-party phones with their service, the government made them change their ways. Why is the government letting Apple get away with the equivalent?
I would suggest that is exactly what Beeper is doing. Not the end users ISP / WAN connection obviously, but certainly Apple's iMessage infrastructure (servers, switches, bandwidth, etc).
iMessage is not a simple P2P platform.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't there? You can use iMessage via the Messages app on a Mac and tools like BlueBubbles already have hooks to send and receive iMessages using the official client.
Macs are an Apple product and have the very nearly the same hardware protections.
This seems to be Beeper's insincere attempt at dressing up their grievances to appear as if they were in advantage of the [Apple's] customer. Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. People who choose to invest in Android phones know they won't get access to iMessage. It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason…
> Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. Apple might disagree. https://9to5mac.com/2023/11/16/apple-rcs-coming-to-iphone/
RCS is a replacement for SMS.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> SMS Can you change the SMS app on Apple devices now?
This is conflating problems. This thread is about asking the government to step in to allow 3rd party devices into iMessage, which is decidedly outside of SMS, but gov won't step in because iMessage isn't a monopoly on messaging nor SMS. It's a monopoly on... it's own protocol/service? Android users always get a message an iPhone user sends so to claim gov intervention monopoly on the basis that the end user can't ch…
People tend to misinterpret what it means to be a monopoly for antitrust law. The obvious example here is United States v. Microsoft Corp., where the inability to remove Internet Explorer was at issue. Being unable to set an alternative messaging app with equivalent functionality (such as Signal) on a mobile phone is at least as cumbersome to the user as being unable to uninstall Internet Explorer, despite the ability to install competing browsers. The iMessage case is arguably worse because the competing browsers had the same features as IE. Apple uses its control of the handset to disable other messengers from supporting SMS on iOS.
Also relevant in that case is that Microsoft was argued to be a monopoly not over all computers or even all desktop computers, but over intel-based personal computers. This illustrates that the scope of the market in these cases is often smaller than one might initially think.
The FTC has a page here that goes into it [0].
> Then courts ask if that leading position was gained or maintained through improper conduct—that is, something other than merely having a better product, superior management or historic accident....Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors.
In this case, forcing users to use iMessage for SMS decreases the likelihood that users will install an alternative messenger with a smaller feature set due to Apple's control over the OS.
That reduced likelihood compounds quickly because the popularity of a messenger tends to scale with the square of the install base.
[0] https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Apple could also push out an update tomorrow that would end this once and for all by utilizing device attestation and leveraging Secure Enclave More proof that Remote Attestation is evil and does not exist to serve the user.
As a user, I am very well served by remote attestation when it is used to stop cheaters in videogames or spammers in messaging platforms.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple's iMessage implementation loses messages all the time. It happens about once every month between my girlfriend and I. I have also had iMesages be sent to the wrong recipient. In one ongoing case, my aunt and uncle frequently receive each other's iMessages, suggesting it's related to their group carrier plan but it's hard to say. The extended family all knows to use SMS instead, which reliably goes to the intend…
I use iMessage regularly, and have done so since it was first released. I have never , to my knowledge, had a message sent to me lost (which I would have found out because my family members, who would have been the ones to try and fail to send it to me, would have mentioned it), nor lost a message I sent (except for obvious cases where I had insufficient signal, and the app clearly notified me of it). I have never re…
As I mentioned in the previous discussion[1], users are going to have to put up with the system going down... and I just don't see that happening. From the article: "It was losing messages during the outage and never being entirely certain they had been sent or received. There was a gathering on Saturday, and she had to double-check with a couple people about the details after showing up inadvertently early at the wr…
Apple's iMessage implementation loses messages all the time. It happens about once every month between my girlfriend and I. I have also had iMesages be sent to the wrong recipient. In one ongoing case, my aunt and uncle frequently receive each other's iMessages, suggesting it's related to their group carrier plan but it's hard to say. The extended family all knows to use SMS instead, which reliably goes to the intend…
I call shenanigans.
This seems to be Beeper's insincere attempt at dressing up their grievances to appear as if they were in advantage of the [Apple's] customer. Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. People who choose to invest in Android phones know they won't get access to iMessage. It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason…
How is being able to send iMessages to your Android-user friends from your iPhone not to your advantage as an Apple customer?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple's iMessage implementation loses messages all the time. It happens about once every month between my girlfriend and I. I have also had iMesages be sent to the wrong recipient. In one ongoing case, my aunt and uncle frequently receive each other's iMessages, suggesting it's related to their group carrier plan but it's hard to say. The extended family all knows to use SMS instead, which reliably goes to the intend…
Are they sharing the same iCloud ID or something? That's the most likely scenario to me
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple's iMessage implementation loses messages all the time. It happens about once every month between my girlfriend and I. I have also had iMesages be sent to the wrong recipient. In one ongoing case, my aunt and uncle frequently receive each other's iMessages, suggesting it's related to their group carrier plan but it's hard to say. The extended family all knows to use SMS instead, which reliably goes to the intend…
iMessage is routed through apple's servers over TCP. So this is like saying: sometimes I go to google.com but it randomly loads bing.com... must be related to my group carrier plan What data made you make that association? Seems unlikely. If that happens, then apple would have to be routing messages incorrectly, but that would be a massive bug/security issue... especially considering how E2EE works.